Import of NZ bees into UK

[VEG]

The queen in my original 1 colony came from Hawaii so I suppose its the same as someone getting them from NZ or any other country, I now have a lot more colonies but some are all desendents of my original queen and caught swarms. None of my colonies are nasty, I only get stung if I do something wrong. As long as it is legal to do so people will continue to import.
I can see that some will be worried about the imports but as long as they are checked out by the appropriate athority then there is not much that can be done to stop it.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

The queen in my original 1 colony came from Hawaii so I suppose its the same as someone getting them from NZ or any other country, I now have a lot more colonies but some are all desendents of my original queen and caught swarms. None of my colonies are nasty, I only get stung if I do something wrong. As long as it is legal to do so people will continue to import.
I can see that some will be worried about the imports but as long as they are checked out by the appropriate athority then there is not much that can be done to stop it.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=4475

 

[RoofTops]

Imports from Hawaii were stopped last year. Before then lots of queens were imported quite legally. That the EU moved to stop these imports when SHB was found could be taken as evidence the system works.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

Or evidence that everyone thought imports from Hawaii were OK until they discovered SHB. Up until that point I'm sure everyone swore they were safe as houses.

 

[RoofTops]

Up until that point I'm sure everyone swore they were safe as houses.

They were - in terms of diseases.

 

[greatbritishhoney]

They were - in terms of diseases.

You're assuming that the first "discovery" of SHB in hawaii was the first "incidence". This is almost never the case - these things are often around for a while before anybody notices or identifies them.

 

[VEG]

Had mine before 2 years before that. They were also inspected by the RBI and SBI who happen to be in our association at the time.

 

[Somerford]

re. Further impact of the Down Ampney site...

All

After conversing via email with Ron Hoskins of Swindon BKA I managed to speak with him today about his project and the impact the colonies will have at Down Ampney on it.

As some of you will know, through links posted here earlier in the thread and through the grapevine, Ron has been working hard to develop a strain of honeybee that shows characteristics of hive cleanliness that pertain to the natural destruction of varroa mites within the colony without the use of chemicals.

Ron recently applied for and received a grant from the BBKA who could see real merit in his work. This money has been put towards 20 nucs, 20 microscopes, 20 queens raised from his own stock with the intention of distributing the colonies to local beekeepers with intent to flood the areas with drones , in the hope of passing on the 'cleanliness' characteristics. Nucs would then be re-distributed via Ron later in this season.

He is somewhat dismayed to learn of the Co-Op project, indeed a number of chosen apiaries were to be in the surrounding area, but his belief is that the attempt to flood the area with his drones would be counter-productive with so many colonies on the Down Ampney Site.

He also mentioned his understanding that when the distance travelled in the mating flight of a queen bee is combined with that of a drone, the area could be up to 80 Sq Miles from 2 colonies at separate ends of the radii. Hence his reluctance now to locate his nucs within the flight zone from Down Ampney.

He has tried (to no avail as yet) to contact the BBKA to ascertain their position on the matter, he said to me he was continuing to try and gain some response.

I think that a number of things can be gleaned from this..that a prominent bee breeder is sufficiently concerned as to the impact of NZ queens he is prepared to relocate his nuc distribution, that is a decision not to be taken lightly in my opinion. Second, he has clear backing from the BBKA to undertake his project, (let's leave the politics of the BBKA out of this for once, accept they are a force for good in this particular project ?!) and they should (in my opinion) be concerned as to the impact, after all they funded the project. Thirdly, Ron has first hand experience of NZ queens and their characteristics. He doesn't rate them at all nor their offspring when interbred with local genes. (he mentioned aggressive behaviour, excess brood production v lack of surplus and a general sluggishness to work at all) so if he is unhappy, why on earth aren't the Co-Op ?

I'll update as I hear more from Ron. I have asked him to post directly, but he has had some issues trying to get online here, but he was happy for me to pass on his concerns.

regards

S

 

[Norton]

This money has been put towards 20 nucs, 20 microscopes, 20 queens raised from his own stock with the intention of :
Why does he need 20 microscopes? he can only look through one at a time!

 

[Somerford]

Norton - sorry, I'll elaborate. The idea is to allow the 20 nuc owners to study the mite drops of the nucs as they develop into larger colonies, and report back their findings !

regards

S

 

[peteinwilts]

what type of bees has Ron been using??

 

[Somerford]

his own...from the Swindon BKA apiary originally...

S

 

[Poly Hive]

I don't want to get overly involved in the rights and wrongs of the C0-op situation but if you are queen rearing, you do what you have to do to get the results you want.

If you need isolated matings you make moves to ensure it.

Where the person concerned is I would have thought that if and it is a big if, if his project is so important why is he doing doing it where he is? Yes he lives there... but?

There are far better locations in the UK to achieve isolated matings and most of mainland England is not one of them.

Sometimes you have to face reality.

PH

 

[RoofTops]

I heard Ron talk at an event recently and I wish him the best although his basic premise that damaged varroa are due to bees was contradicted by a speaker at the recent IBRA conference on varroa.

No matter, I am sure that will all come out in the wash, but any attempts to control random mating in a highly populated part of the world, such as around Swindon, are doomed from the outset.

AI is the only way unless you have a remote apiary - such as an offshore island to hand. And any strain of bees raised by such a method will soon revert to the local mongrels when brought back to "civilisation".

The gene pool of most of the UK is too mixed to allow pure strains to be raised.

This is not to say the average beekeeper cannot raise good bees. Ivor Davies has written and spoken publicly about his success in an area where he was surrounded by a mixture of bees. But "racial purity"? Forget it, unless you live in the wilds.

 

[Somerford]

I would agree with you on the isolated mating point.

I believe the point of his exercise is to see whether by forcing the spread of his selected genetics, he can test how transferrable these characteristics are in the population, by means of this trial rather than flooding the area with 'F1' drones or queens, thereby effecting a change in the genetics to the good of hive cleanliness...and this can only be done by a test like this really. His opinion is that that the volume of drones from Down Ampney would skew the results against the characteristics he ahs identified being passed on.

regards

S

 

[Poly Hive]

I disagree Rooftops.

There are loads of places in the UK and by UK I mean all of the landmass of England/Wales/Scotland and no doubt NI too where isolated matings are possible.

I achieved matings with no issues in Aberdeenshire. True to type.

If you think about it how much distance do you actually need? 10 miles really.

How to test it? Set out some virgins and if they fail to mate... bonus. You have an isolated site.

KISS

PH

 

[DanBee]

Somerford - I see you're back on the thread. Could we please put to rest this public accusation you made about my ethics, as I have repeatedly asked you?

One has to accept that ITLD and Dan will never come round to our way of thinking - after all they'll stop at nothing to keep their businesses going - ie producing honey, and one can't put ethics before profit can we ?!!

Can you substantiate this claim? As far as I know we have never met, nor have you seen my bees/beekeeping. On what do you base your accusation?

Are we to believe that Somerford will say anything to support his point of view, make any number of baseless accusations, and simply duck or ignore when challenged to provide facts? Can he be trusted, must we view everything he posts with suspicion and distrust?

Be a man and answer the question, Somerford. The issue is of your making.

You made the accusation publicly, so now let's all hear when you met me, and what you have seen of my beekeeping, or let's all hear the apology that you made an accusation with no basis in fact...

Facts or retraction please.

 

[Into the lions den]

His opinion is that that the volume of drones from Down Ampney would skew the results against the characteristics he ahs identified being passed on.

Two points raised by this post and your last.

This one first. So, apparently the volume of drones I will be sending out will be too many? Now, in terms of 'drones coming from Down Ampney' what exactly is different from before? Despite your repeated assertions to the contrary, the actual volume of bees on that estate will not be seriously greater than before. You have been told repeatedly that the total involved will be scattered on a significant number of sites. Fwiw I generally operate in groups of 20 to 24, though this can rise or fall in relation to available forage.
One further point on the bees that will be with them. It is part of my spec that any packages MUST be drone seived. No drones at all allowed. Thus the package workers will die out in a short time and leave no genetic mark whatsoever inthe area.

Secondly you have re-erected the straw man of New Zealand bees. Standard New Zealand bees have just about zero significance to this thread as NONE of these are involved. The imports everyone has talked about from there are Italian stock, and to be honest the reports of bad wintering performance, too much brood out of season, esp late autumn, and very little honey are just about spot on in my limited experience of these. However this is not the bee under consideration, so please, desist linking them.

Off at 4AM, and will be on site at Down Ampney tomorrow, Hereford on Saturday, and giving a talk in Herefordshire on Sunday, so will be off the thread and unable to answer questions until I return on Monday.

 

[RoseCottage]

The discussion on this thread has at times been very informative and at others unhappily personal. I wish it was just the former.

For me after 42 pages I am bowing out and not reading on. I will never know whether Danbee and Somerford become firm friends ...nor will I care.

Adios amigos

 

[BKF Admin]

I try to let threads run along on their own for as long as I possibly can as I think the hands off approach is far better for healthy debate.

As this thread is now turning into a ping-pong match between two posters I am going to step in and make contact with both members using the private message facility and try and resolve the problems.

Admin.