if bees had of never been treated for varroa would they have overcome it?

[chycarne]

Rab
have to admit to agreeing totally ...

 

[Finman]

Downside is that honey production is reduced but I can still yield 20 to 40kg per hive in a year which is fine by me AND I don't ta

Chris

that amount is very small.

- A good yield depends on pastures. What kind of pasture you have?
- How many hives you keep in one place
- how many boxes or brood frames your productive hives have?

 

[user 6228]

I think we need to revise our idea that insects and their parasites behaviour is a constant and is unchanging. We as beeks are changing the behaviour of the bees and their parasites. That change can occur faster than some would like to think. A little research into Bee behaviour shows a level of complexity that implies a level of flexibilty to have adopted this variety of behaviour.After all Bees can be trained to recognise and remember human faces, which I find boggling and almost unbelievable. (somebody tell me please it was an april fool prank)

 

[Finman]

If man had not interfered, maybe the spread would have been minimal. If man had not interfered it may never have reached the British Isles, either.

- if man had not interfered, honeybees woudl not bee in Americas, In Africa, Australia, NZ, finland an so on.

Other species may have evolved or multiplied to fill the void left by the loss of the honey bee pollinators (eusocial bees for example). Even the flora may have changed due to the losses of pollinators.

- pollinating insects Apidea is the biggest insect group on earth. Actually honeybee is not needed.


Bees must have needed to adapt over the millions of years they have been around, so once more would not be unexpected.

AMEN!

Now, once we have interfering Man involved, we have a completely different ball game.

HALLELUJAH!

Varroa is now conquering Africa with high speed. The size of Arfica is 3 times that of Europe.

Don't believe that varroa will be beated. These countries have no brood brake. Treating the varroa is very difficult.



RAB, how many beers have you taken?

.

 

[Anduril]

As in Nepal we need the beekeepers friend inside the hive!

 

[yeogi75]

where did varroa come from, i mean from a diffrent insect, or is it only on bees, and what is the breeding cycle.

 

[Finman]

.
You may look it from google "varroa history" and "life cycle varroa"

 

[Erichalfbee]

try this, it's an audio recording of a lecture which he did in 2009:

www.makingbeehives.com/blog/audio-of-lecture-by-dr-thomas-d-seeley-honeybee-biologist-at-

this is another valid reason to subscribe to the main US bee magazines -if you're interested in this sort of stuff. Seeley has written some excellent articles on this subject.

I actually have Honeybee Democracy
I should get round to reading it

 

[Chris Luck]

that amount is very small.

- A good yield depends on pastures. What kind of pasture you have?
- How many hives you keep in one place
- how many boxes or brood frames your productive hives have?

Is 20 to 40kg per hive very small Finman? It's actually about the same as the "Fiddlers and Treaters" round here get from their hives, although as I said marginally less due to allowing my bees to swarm.

No pasture as such but what there is has been "improved" as it is called and so has nothing for bees as there are no flowers. Very poor overall flora, few hedgerows, (all been ripped out), no uncultivated field margins, no garden flowers, so really just OSR - False Acacia - Sweet Chestnut and Sunflower are the principle sources of nectar in the region. Additionally goat willow, wild cherry, peach, apple, pear, plum etc in spring. On my own patches of land where hives are kept there are also wild flowers.

The maximum number of hives I have in one place is about 35.

All production frame hives are 10 frame Dadant and about 80% of my bees are very close to being native if not actually native. Certainly there is a heavy "native" genetic influence. Others show characteristics of Italian and / or Buckfast.

Again I reiterate, financial gain is not my main "raison d'être" although I am fully registered and sell honey.

The main thing regarding this thread is that untreated honey bees colonies can and do survive or live with the mighty mite and in France it's about the same survival rate as with treated colonies that aren't manipulated.

Chris

 

[drstitson]

"How does a mite know there is a hive next door in order to modify its behaviour? OR have I totally misunderstood the statement?"

the mites don't know.

natural selection (sorry americans) at work.

avirulent strain selected for in isolated colonies as those that are virulent can't jump ship before killing host colony.

isolated colonies transmit varroa vertically - via swarming - host must survive (at least until ready to swarm) otherwise the mites die with the colony.
crowded colonies transmit varroa horizontally - via robbing and drifting - so first host may die but mites will have new family to colonise

 

[Hivemaker.]

crowded colonies transmit varroa horizontally - via robbing and drifting - so first host may die but mites will have new family to colonise

That covers just about all of this country,many others as well i would imagine.

 

[Bcrazy]

Hi jake the dog, you asked me why i treat my Nuc's and not my main colonies.
The Nuc's are mainly from swarms therefore i treat before the queen resumes laying with Apiguard One sachet . I will later exchange one of my queens into the treated Nuc . I raise my own queens from colonies that have not been treated for 4 years now. My worry about this is if a heavy infestation from a swarm might affect one of my stable colonies, but so far they are holding their own.
When i pass on my Nuc's then i am helping the strain of hopefully partial resistant bees to Varroa. I ensure the bees have a good supply of different pollen grains as i collect pollen throughout the year from flowers and plants .

That is my reasoning for treating my Nuc's and not my full grown colonies.

Hope that helps.

Mo

 

[For want of a better word]

A virulent strain selected for in isolated colonies as those that are virulent can't jump ship before killing host colony.

Dr S..
Don't quite understand that.

In terms of E. coli 507 the virulent one, isolation and treatment of the host, seems to be standard practice...... but it keeps coming back.
Therefore if virulent strains of varroa mite could be isolated and treated/eliminated would natural defenses of the honey bee eventually rid us of varroa ?

Is that the question in the OP?

 

[drstitson]

icanhopit - you've added a space where none was intended!!!!!

avirulent vs virulent.

NB isolated colonies mean less chance of the varroa acquiring and spreading the nasties viruses

either we keep our bees as isolated hives and let varroa evolve new less damaging survival strategy OR as for human virulent diseases, adopt hygiene in our crowded apiaries (eg select hygienic bee strains and treat for the mites).

 

[Finman]

icanhopit - you've added a space where none was intended!!!!!

avirulent vs virulent.

NB isolated colonies mean less chance of the varroa acquiring and spreading the nasties viruses

either we keep our bees as isolated hives and let varroa evolve new less damaging survival strategy OR as for human virulent diseases, adopt hygiene in our crowded apiaries (eg select hygienic bee strains and treat for the mites).

in those expansion years varroa spreaded here 50 km a year.
With car the speed is better.

Isolated hives! varroa has been here allready 35 years. late born ideas wanted!
We tried to isolate varroa here but it had no meaning.

 

[drstitson]

The point was that single isolated colonies tolerate varroa infestation unlike our crowded apiaries.

yes you cannot totally isolate colonies and prevent SPREAD but without access to locally dense bee populations varroa will tend towards avirulent behaviour.

how far apart is each apiary in Uk? Finland? wherever? the key is the distance between colonies NOT apiaries.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Good idea,keep each colony at least 20 miles apart,well away from the drones of any other colony,then they can die out from inbreeding instead.

 

[For want of a better word]

Think we are talking... in an IDEAL world here?

Whist we are all waiting for a virus to naturally evolve to exterminate the nasty mite, some one will unleash one that has been genetically modified! IMO...

Will I then have to put a "May contain Nuts and GM products" on my honey labels ?

 

[Finman]

The point was that single isolated colonies tolerate varroa infestation unlike our crowded apiaries.

yes you cannot totally isolate colonies and prevent SPREAD but without access to locally dense bee populations varroa will tend towards avirulent behaviour.

how far apart is each apiary in Uk? Finland? wherever? the key is the distance between colonies NOT apiaries.

that isolation idea is ( I cannot write it here without banning) ....interesting.

It is time to change medication or even doctor.

It was a research in Ahvenanmaa Archipelago, how bees forage on isles.
They marked bees. One marked bee was found 10 km from its home hive.
It flyed that distance and took bed and breakfast in another hive. Drones use to fly without regulations.

But I think that is more convinient to give oxalic acid 30 second per hive than drive 20 miles.
Never read about that idea.



.

 

[WI-USA-BEEK]

Dont forget, its not only the bee that can evolve but the mite as well. It is the opinion of many that those who go treatment free may not only have mite resistant bees but less aggressive mites. If you only split colonies that survive are you selecting for mite resistance or less aggressive mites? Or both?

So yes, I believe the bee and mite would evolve to coexist in nature. However, introduce varroa to apiaries where they can all out breed without consequence and varroa will explode.