I want to tidy up my brood box

[shedman]

Let’s just have a look how we have got to this situation and put an end to it.
My original question was is it to late to go into my hive and clean it up. All I got was Go on a course and reed some books. Well I couldn’t instantly go on a course or get a book and reed it. It took 2 pages before someone told me the reason why not to do it. I was accused of not listening but I was. I just wasn’t getting a proper explanation.
Then came the subject of treating the bees. I was going to leave it a month before I did it. I have left it to late I know that but I am a beginner and was willing to give it a go. I was jumping in at the deep end. I admit I have made mistakes
The fact that I was doing some small experiments and I am trying to find an alternative way of stopping the mites got a lot of negative posts and I was labelled an idiot. I did get some good results. They probably still think I am an idiot
This thread has gone on so long because there is five pages of abuse targeted at me and sheep.
When someone asks for advice the I think answer should be followed by an explanation and why it should be done or not done in my case.
You have got the wrong impression of me. I am a practical person and always try to find solutions to problems. I am now looking into substances that spiders don’t like because they are related to mites.I am sorry if some people don’t think it is worth it but something has got to be done

 

[Erichalfbee]

 

[alldigging]

We have 1.5 chest freezers full of local lamb (grown on our ground). We rent our grass out as keep and part of the payment is a lamb turns up in our freezer,(close your eyes JBM).
The trouble is that just the 2 of us don't eat it fast enough.

If you ever need help with a roast lamb dinner I could bring some home grown potatoes!


And to the OP:
If you think bees squeeze through your mesh floor then you have an issue - if they do it might mean the floor isn't secure all the way round. This can make bees much more defensive if other bees can access via that too.

The fact you had an idea about a winter queen excluder with bigger holes indicated that you'd read some stuff and need to read some more.

 

[bontbee]

I am now looking into substances that spiders don’t like because they are related to mites.

Conkers, apparently. Never tried them myself, as I like spiders, but a phobic colleague swore by them.

 

[Davelin]

Conkers spelt with a B !!

 

[pargyle]

Let’s just have a look how we have got to this situation and put an end to it.
My original question was is it to late to go into my hive and clean it up. All I got was Go on a course and reed some books. Well I couldn’t instantly go on a course or get a book and reed it. It took 2 pages before someone told me the reason why not to do it. I was accused of not listening but I was. I just wasn’t getting a proper explanation.

Not so .... The first three posts after your original post told you exactly what to do ... No mention of courses, books or anything derogatory about your beekeeping ... I think later on when it became more evident that you were 'experimenting' there were concerns raised by experienced beekeepers that your thinking was flawed .... I'm all for reinventing the wheel if you can find a better way to go forward but there are some things that it is hard to improve .....

 

[alldigging]

Conkers, apparently. Never tried them myself, as I like spiders, but a phobic colleague swore by them.

We collected loads of conkers from school and they seem to have stopped spiders from appearing in the lounge.
Chestnut oil can be used, but conkers are free!

 

[Finman]

.
Varroa is difficult creature to resist. It has been seen during 30 years. Many universities make serious research, what to do with that bug.

If you put into google "copper varroa", you get some results what have done with copper chemicals.

One guy just put a copper wire in entrance and believed that copper iones kill mites. Copper sulphate and glutamate were not promising chemicals.

But Shedman must do what a man must do.

 

[Little John]

Copper sulphate and glutamate were not promising chemicals.

I wouldn't describe a 91% kill rate for gluconate as being 'not promising'. The problem with chemicals such as copper gluconate and oxalic acid is that they are unpatentable generic compounds, and thus there's no profit to be made from supplying these, or from any research into these compounds.
Cynical ? Yes.
LJ

 

[MuswellMetro]

I wouldn't describe a 91% kill rate for gluconate as being 'not promising'. The problem with chemicals such as copper gluconate and oxalic acid is that they are unpatentable generic compounds, and thus there's no profit to be made from supplying these, or from any research into these compounds.
Cynical ? Yes.
LJ

see paper

 

[MuswellMetro]

Let’s just have a look how we have got to this situation and put an end to it.

This thread has gone on so long because there is five pages of abuse targeted at me and sheep.

its more to do with the time of year and that they are all missing their bee fix and having withdrawal symptoms

by february they will all at each others throats but best friends again by april

 

[Little John]

see paper

That's where the 91% came from - that 1993 paper. No subsequent research into gluconate, afaik :

ABSTRACT
For three years, about 1,500 hives were surveyed for varroa mites following feeding tests using cupric gluconate and cupric lactate in sucrose syrup. Three to five litres per hive of 0 to 2.8g of copper metal per litre of sucrose syrup were given in spring and/or summer. Bee and mite mortalities were recorded up to four years without significant toxicity being noted for honeybees. By contrast, up to 91% of the mites were killed in a dose-dependent manner by gluconate. Lactate was markedly less active than the gluconate, although it also prevented reinfestations.
Cupric gluconate in sugar syrup was as attractive, if not more so, than pure sucrose, and the copper concentrations in honey at harvest were unchanged. Efficacy of treatments was not brood dependent.
Cupric organic salts therefore provide a safe way for preventing the infestation of hives and the development of the mite over long periods.

Not as effective as OA sublimation, sure, but gluconate has the advantage of continuous application.
LJ

 

[MuswellMetro]

perhaps FINMAN has more information as to why it was not pursued , i had not come across it before

 

[Finman]

perhaps FINMAN has more information as to why it was not pursued , i had not come across it before

I have no more information about that. But research is 20 y old. It tells that treatment was not good, because it did not become widely used.. Perhaps Apistan was superior.

 

[Dishmop]

I got bored with reading all of it...and somebody else may have said that..

for somebody who hasnt looked at their bees during the summer months and left them too it.......they seemed to have given over a lot of time every day to the counting of mites.

 

[Little John]

I know it's a cynical view - but I can't see any real incentive to pursue research into the use of these generic compounds. It's not so much the pure academic research itself, but the research needed to get approval for the required veterinary therapeutic substances (or whatever it's called) licence. One firm could go to huge expense to acquire such a licence, only to find that other firms could then financially benefit by that action - so to ensure profit it's necessary to create unique patented compounds. That's certainly been the case with weedkiller legislation which has favoured giant companies such as Bayer and Monsanto.

LJ

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

gluconate has the advantage of continuous application.
LJ

So you are going to feed the bees continuously with gluconate syrup solution 'in spring and/or summer' pretty pointless all that work and no honey harvest so where's the 'advantage' ?

perhaps FINMAN has more information as to why it was not pursued

Probably because feeding copper taited sugar syrup for most of the season means that you get no honey harvest, so not really a good method issit?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Copper gluconate etc...........

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16059&highlight=copper+gluconate


http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=16224&highlight=copper+gluconate


http://www.honeybeez.freeserve.co.uk/HAPPY HIVE SALTS.htm

Edit...moved out from beginners section.

 

[Little John]

So you are going to feed the bees continuously with gluconate syrup solution 'in spring and/or summer' pretty pointless all that work and no honey harvest so where's the 'advantage' ?

Probably because feeding copper taited sugar syrup for most of the season means that you get no honey harvest, so not really a good method issit?

Isn't 'tainted' a rather 'loaded' word to use ? The paper - and it's abstract - clearly state: "the copper concentrations in honey at harvest were unchanged". I can't comment on the sucrose content of the honey, 'cause that isn't given, and would clearly be a concern with production hives.

I don't know about "most of the season" ... It's true that they compared administering the syrup over an 8-month period with that of dosing over 4-weeks (4 ± 1 week) - albeit at several different times of the year for reasons of comparison. They found that after the 4-week administration, the rate of parasite fall was constant for the next 6 months. So it would seem that it would be necessary to pick an appropriate 4/52 period for production hives.

The 'advantage' I refer to is that - rather than periodic hits with OA, you are dosing the mites continuously, whenever the copper gluconate is being administered - and not that the copper gluconate need necessarily be administered right throughout the season.

My interest in this is for treating nucs, which of course wouldn't be producing honey, other than for their own stores. But - copper gluconate is expensive, and OA isn't - so for now there are no prizes for guessing which one I'm sticking with.

LJ

 

[Little John]

That's where the 91% came from - that 1993 paper. No subsequent research into gluconate, afaik :

Perhaps this is why ?

Bounias’ article dates back from 1993, while this idea does not seem to have found many followers: No further experiments and documentation are to be found in the Internet. However, Bounias’ death due to cancer only 10 years after his publication may be the actual reason why this idea has not been followed any further. Consequently, there is a lack of further empiric data that would confirm the efficiency and innocuousness for bees of this method.
http://www.jiventure.info/Cupric_Salts

LJ