I want to tidy up my brood box

[shedman]

Hello. I caught a swarm early this year and quickly knocked together my national hive that I got last year. I discovered that a national hive fits 12 frames in and I only had 10 brood frames but I went ahead and put the frames in and leaving a gap at each end thinking the bees would start on the foundation and I could slip two new frames in the side as soon as I could get them. I ordered straight away but it must have been a busy time because it took over a week to get my frames. When I opened the hive I found the bees had built cone in the gap between the frame and the hive. I put the lid on while I had a think what to do and a few more days went past. I decided to cut the cone out and tie it into a frame with no foundation and put it back in the hive. Everything went ok but the cone wasn’t straight in the frame so the bees have followed the line of the wonky cone threw the hive. It is not as bad as it sounds but it needs to be sorted out
My plan was to put the super on the bottom and the brood box on top. I understand that the bees eat the honey from the bottom up so in early spring the super would be empty for the queen to start laying eggs. I would put the queen excluder back on double checking the queen was in the bottom. It would be easier to slowly change the frames in the brood box with no brood in. Would this work

 

[Erichalfbee]

Better still would be to do a Bailey comb change in the spring. That's what I would do.

 

[pargyle]

Better still would be to do a Bailey comb change in the spring. That's what I would do.

+1 ... Nothing to worry about at present - they will have set themselves up for the winter, come spring (and only when it really is warm enough to mess about with them) you have a few options. Just worry about making sure they have enough stores through the winter - start hefting or weighing the hive now and get used to the rate they are eating through the honey they have stored.

 

[REDWOOD]

If they are only the outer frames than just swap them for new ones in the spring

 

[itma]

Like I said before

Sensible advice. {from Enrico} Missing only "if not already, join your local association".

Mouseguard and possibly woodpecker-proof your hive, otherwise leave alone.
/// Added - remove any Queen Excluder that may be in the hive.

Use the winter to learn.
Next spring do a Bailey comb change. (No, that's not where to start the learning.)

The midwinter sales do provide an opportunity for discount purchase of additional/spare equipment. You'll be needing some, not least for sorting out the mess ….
But really, it sounds as though there's a lot of 'catching-up' to be done on the learning front, and a local mentor would be a great help (back to the local association!)

 

[itma]

Hello. I caught a swarm early this year and quickly knocked together my national hive that I got last year. I discovered that a national hive fits 12 frames in and I only had 10 brood frames but I went ahead and put the frames in and leaving a gap at each end thinking the bees would start on the foundation and I could slip two new frames in the side as soon as I could get them. …

Seriously, you do need to pick up on the basics, like using 11 frames and a dummy board - 12 only fit when everything is brand new, its desperately hard getting them in and out after the bees have been 'helpful' with the wax and propolis. .

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Seriously, you do need to pick up on the basics, like using 11 frames and a dummy board - 12 only fit when everything is brand new, its desperately hard getting them in and out after the bees have been 'helpful' with the wax and propolis. .

and, moreover, you roll (and kill) an awful lot of bees trying to get the end frames out, if you fit 12 frames into a brood box.

I made that mistake in my first year and it's the biggest regret I have in 3 years of beekeeping. It was purely driven by my greed.


Dusty.

 

[BeeJayBee]

I made that mistake in my first year and it's the biggest regret I have in 3 years of beekeeping. It was purely driven by my greed.

I don't think so Dusty, it was gentle ignorance based on what you knew at the time, and because almost all the literature says that standard nationals take 12 frames.

 

[shedman]

I will leave them alone for this year. I have taken the queen excluder out and insulated the top and the outside because the hive is in a exposed position on top of a shed. No danger of woodpeckers as I am in a town. I can still get the first frame out so I will have room to loosen the other frames next year. The problem has been that I havnt been looking in my hive threw the summer and braking the bridge cone. a lack of maintenance. My plan was to let the bees just get on with things and I wasn't bothered about taking honey. I am not panicking about the situation the bees will survive. As far as the bees are concerned they are in a hole in tree and they can do what they want. I know I am new to beekeeping but I know the basics. I thought my plan was a good one for a beginner but I have left it to late in the year.

 

[MuswellMetro]

I don't think so Dusty, it was gentle ignorance based on what you knew at the time, and because almost all the literature says that standard nationals take 12 frames.

you must be reading different books from the rest of us as a frequent question on the forum is " it says in the book put in 11 frames but that leaves a big gap"

 

[itma]

I will leave them alone for this year. I have taken the queen excluder out and insulated the top and the outside because the hive is in a exposed position on top of a shed. No danger of woodpeckers as I am in a town. I can still get the first frame out so I will have room to loosen the other frames next year. The problem has been that I havnt been looking in my hive threw the summer and braking the bridge cone. a lack of maintenance. My plan was to let the bees just get on with things and I wasn't bothered about taking honey. I am not panicking about the situation the bees will survive. As far as the bees are concerned they are in a hole in tree and they can do what they want. I know I am new to beekeeping but I know the basics. I thought my plan was a good one for a beginner but I have left it to late in the year.

Varroa treatment? ("The bees will survive" - unattended, don't be so certain!)
Swarm control? (You are in a town, remember.)

The basics of beekeeping aren't completely basic.

Particularly when keeping bees in an urban area, there is an obligation to keep bees responsibly.
By the way, are you registered on Beebase?
It would do no harm to join your local association, and it should do you a lot of good. It would even bring you liability insurance …

 

[shedman]

I did look into a local beekeeping course earlier this year but it was full. I will go on one as soon as possible. I will also look into bee base. Insurance would be a good idea in this day and age.
As for my bees surviving the winter. My bees have got varrowa mite and I have got some Formic Acid but I have been doing my own research to see if I could find a way of helping the bees without harsh treatment. Just want to see if taking the queen excluder out affects the number of mites I find. I have had some interesting results from other experiments .I have Just seen the bee gym so I might try that for a month.

Swarm control is one of the reasons I wanted to sort out my brood box before spring. I should have had a go today as it was like a summer’s day. My bees were out in full force and the ivy around my hive was full. I feel I have mist a chance to sort it now until early spring when it might not be as warm and the hive will be full of brood. 5 minuets of disturbance today might have saved me 15 minuets in spring. Sometimes you have got to go with your instinct rather than by the book.

When I was researching what hive to bye the description for a national hive was that it holds 12 frames. I can bet you that the people who write the books would have started off with 12 frames if they was beginners with no advice then realised 10 or 11 frames would be better with a board now they are experts. Hundreds of people will have 12 frames in without any problems I think.

 

[wessexmario]

The bees will be safe going by their own instincts until you've had time to read some of the books... after all, their species has been around a long time before humans arrived on the planet.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I will leave them alone for this year. I have taken the queen excluder out and insulated the top and the outside because the hive is in a exposed position on top of a shed. No danger of woodpeckers as I am in a town. I can still get the first frame out so I will have room to loosen the other frames next year. The problem has been that I havnt been looking in my hive threw the summer and braking the bridge cone. a lack of maintenance. My plan was to let the bees just get on with things and I wasn't bothered about taking honey. I am not panicking about the situation the bees will survive. As far as the bees are concerned they are in a hole in tree and they can do what they want. I know I am new to beekeeping but I know the basics. I thought my plan was a good one for a beginner but I have left it to late in the year.

Having had the job of sorting out the hives in a neglected apiary in my area this year I can only hope you rapidly get yourself some decent training and possibly a mentor. Airy-fairy hands off approach in an urban environment isnt good for your human neighbours, or your colonies. If a jobs worth doing it's worth doing right.

 

[alldigging]

I should have had a go today as it was like a summer’s day. My bees were out in full force and the ivy around my hive was full. I feel I have mist a chance to sort it now until early spring when it might not be as warm and the hive will be full of brood. 5 minuets of disturbance today might have saved me 15 minuets in spring. Sometimes you have got to go with your instinct rather than by the book.

Leave it til spring.

Your bees have sorted out all the gaps with propolis now for winter. They won't appreciate you going through to do 'five minutes' of sorting. It'll be a lot longer than that I expect.
Breaking comb and removing comb will be very disruptive to them. Repairing wax will use lots of honey up that they need for winter stores.

 

[shedman]

That is a good reason why not to do it thank you.
my logic for wanting to do it was make the best of the good whether but I am wrong when it comes to beekeeping.
Just ordered A Practical Manual of Beekeeping.
There is two curses near me one in march and one in may. I will book my place on one as soon as pos. Thank you for all your help I have seen the arrows of my way.

 

[pargyle]

That is a good reason why not to do it thank you.
my logic for wanting to do it was make the best of the good whether but I am wrong when it comes to beekeeping.
Just ordered A Practical Manual of Beekeeping.
There is two curses near me one in march and one in may. I will book my place on one as soon as pos. Thank you for all your help I have seen the arrows of my way.

A couple of wonderful freudian slips there I think ....

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I have been doing my own research to see if I could find a way of helping the bees without harsh treatment. Just want to see if taking the queen excluder out affects the number of mites I find.

Why would it? - leaving it in over winter might affect their survival chances in a pretty certain negative way though. Find an experienced (or at least competent) beekeeper and persuade them to help yu give them an oxalic treatment mid winter

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'm amazed at the number of people posting that they " want to leave the bees alone and not treat " without thinking how they have arrived at that conclusion. There are folk here who treat minimally. Derekm and pargyle and even RAB spring to mind but they do so with some justification. I wish people would think before they happen on an empty hive in the spring

 

[pargyle]

I'm amazed at the number of people posting that they " want to leave the bees alone and not treat " without thinking how they have arrived at that conclusion. There are folk here who treat minimally. Derekm and pargyle and even RAB spring to mind but they do so with some justification. I wish people would think before they happen on an empty hive in the spring

+1 ... Lot more to think about when you don't treat and I wouldn't recommend anyone to 'just let them get on with it' ... it's a recipe for a disaster on so many levels ...