How much yeast

[Monsieur Abeille]

Afternoon all

I have some excess honey that I'm going to try making into mead.

No previous experience of this sort of thing, I've read various threads and have an assortment of recipies that I'll be using.

Some things I'm unclear of though:

1) How much yeast? I am planning to make up to 6 demijohns (6 gallons), using 4 lbs honey per gallon, adding some (teaspoon?) marmite. I've bought 4x75g packets of wine yeast. So how much yeast should I use per gallon?

2) I understand that many folks suggest pre-starting the yeast (does that mean just leaving it in water?) - roughly how much water for this process, and should it be warm?

3) Bought a hydrometer (all the gear, no idea!), which I gather measures alcohol level and probably a load of other stuff. If you are aiming for a particular reading (>1050?) how do you adjust it up or down?

Sure these are very stupid questions, but I'd hate to find in gawd knows how many months I'd produced a bucket of non alchoholic sludge.

 

[biglongdarren]

i'll be looking forward to the answers here, i went on a day course to learn how to make yeast and the man used a starter yeast, i have tried several times since doing what he done with the same ingredients, with no luck in getting the yeast to start.
Darren

 

[oliver90owner]

4 x 7g?

That would be enough yeast to keep you going for years! Apart from it having a finite life span in the sachet.

One pack of 7.5g would likely do for all 6 gallons if it were fermented in one bucket.

Making a starter is simply rehydrating the yeast in a warm sugar solution before actually needing it. The cells start to reproduce so the fermentation starts more quickly than chucking in a dehydrated yeast.

Some even make mead using the natural yeasts in the honey, justify as some make cider with the natural yeasts on the apples. I prefer to kill off the natural yeasts and add a known strain; the results are far more predictable.

Honey will start off with a very fast initial fermentation, so needs plenty of head space to avoid frothing over. My next mead will be started with only part of the honey and the rest added later. It makes fixing the original gravity a little more difficult for the beginner.

Making up two lots by using the amount of honey for one lot in one demijohn and retaining the other amount of honey divided into halves. You can then divide that first demijohn equally between two and be confident that when topping up with the second half of the honey to each, then filling the demijohns to the same level as that first one will give the desired result.

The original gravity (OG) required will depend on what ABV (alcohol by volume) you wish to finish at.

The winemaking books by CJJ Berry are a good reference. They are old but in in Imperial, Metric and US units. First steps in winemaking is certainly available on the net as a download.

OG will fix not only the ABV, but also the sweetness if the yeast will not tolerate a higher ABV.

One can use other yeast nutrients than marmite, but nutrient is needed as there is little other than sugars in honey of course.

If you know your honey water content, you can calculate approx how much honey you need. You can always try one roughly and refine the amounts at the second. Try. Keeping notes will allow you to sort out weights and volumes for any resultant OG.

OG of 1.05 would be in the realms of beer and cider, 1.08 -1.09 are usual for wine. And 1.11 would give a high alcohol mead. All dependent on the alcohol tolerance of theyeast, of course.

You likely need some lemon juice or citric acid as well.

I do not boil mine as per CJJB, but I do heat and remove 'scum'.

There are lots of recipes for other than simple dry mead.

Not perfected my method yet. Arfermo may be along shortly. He is an expert with wines.

 

[joctcl]

Ah my two hobbies collide.
Not sure if I am allowed post to other forums, mods delete if this link if its an issue
http://forum.craftbrewing.org.uk/viewforum.php?f=19
I always felt mead was a terrible waste of honey but to answer your questions,

1) How much yeast? I am planning to make up to 6 demijohns (6 gallons), using 4 lbs honey per gallon, adding some (teaspoon?) marmite. I've bought 4x75g packets of wine yeast. So how much yeast should I use per gallon?

1 Packet of yeast usually per 4-5 gallons, you will also need yeast nutrient

2) I understand that many folks suggest pre-starting the yeast (does that mean just leaving it in water?) - roughly how much water for this process, and should it be warm?

Depends on the yeast manufacturer, some you need to rehydrate in warm water for 30mins, a lot of modern styles you can just sprinkle on the top, packet will tell you what to do. Sanitation is key in fermenting over long period especially with meads.

3) Bought a hydrometer (all the gear, no idea!), which I gather measures alcohol level and probably a load of other stuff. If you are aiming for a particular reading (>1050?) how do you adjust it up or down?

The Hydrometer is an indicator of how much dissolved sugars and potential fermentables are in solution, the higher the number, so in the case of mead you are looking for 1100 ish the higher the final abv will be.
Over time as you measure gravity, it falls as the yeast gobble through the sugars generating co2 and alcohol.
You can make a dry mead down to 0.990-1.000 range

Loads of recipes out there with fruit etc, must get round to it one of these days.

Edit: Oliver can type quicker than me

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Very helpful both, thanks.

So - if I want to end up with a reading of 1100 on my hydrometer, and its only showing 1050, should I add more honey? Conversely if its 1150, will water bring it down? Are the results of such modifying instantaneous?

 

[DulwichGnome]

Joe's Ancient Orange Mead

This is the recipe I have used and it has been well received.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f80/joes-ancient-orange-mead-49106/
Note the use of bread yeast and the 'leave it alone' notice. Sound advice.

Mike.

 

[joctcl]

Very helpful both, thanks.

So - if I want to end up with a reading of 1100 on my hydrometer, and its only showing 1050, should I add more honey? Conversely if its 1150, will water bring it down? Are the results of such modifying instantaneous?

yes to both

 

[oliver90owner]

Yes on all three, actually! The proviso on the third being adequate mixing! Many make the mistake og not mixing sufficiently and getting an erroneous hydrometer reading.

There is a 'pearsons' square, or some such name, for calculating dilutions in CJJB, as well as tables of sugar content, ABV and specific gravity on the early pages in the eighties.

RAB

PS for joctcl: you must be slow at typing if I can beat you to it! Oh, and I think the yeast sachets are likely 7.5g, not 75g? Might be a case of over-pitching if a factor of ten out!

 

[Tom Bick]

I simply do one tea spoon of yeast and nutrient for the first gallon and then half a tea spoon for any other gallons. I only ever use the hydrometer for mead.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Well my first purchase of kit got left behind in a restaurant, the replacement shop had no hydrometer so I went blindly into the process.

Made 2 gallons in the end, and after a few hours one was bubbling away happily. The other was still calm the following morning -I fear I may have done in the yeast by using too hot a honey mixture (is such a thing possible?). I took a punt at adding more yeast with a vigorous shake this morning, but a couple of hours later still no sign of life.

Live and learn!

 

[Tom Bick]

I have in the past had some wine take along time to get going it sits there for a few days and as you think all is lost it suddenly starts and sets off like a rocket. Mead requires some form of citrus and a nutrient helps things along. Just wondering if you did both or either.

 

[joctcl]

Since Oliver has gone to bed

What temp was your honey mix did you pitch your packet of yeast at?
It needs to be ideally 18-22C as does your room fermentation temperature.
If it was over 30 you killed your yeast. Its not too late tho just let the temperature of the mead get down to the ideal and throw in another packet I know you have plenty .
The best thing is even though you killed the yeast, the first packet doesn't go to complete waste as it acts as a nutrient for the second! Wait 24 hours for take off, so report back tomorrow.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

I have in the past had some wine take along time to get going it sits there for a few days and as you think all is lost it suddenly starts and sets off like a rocket. Mead requires some form of citrus and a nutrient helps things along. Just wondering if you did both or either.

Tom - I put in juice of a lemon plus a sliced orange.

Since Oliver has gone to bed

What temp was your honey mix did you pitch your packet of yeast at?
It needs to be ideally 18-22C as does your room fermentation temperature.
If it was over 30 you killed your yeast. Its not too late tho just let the temperature of the mead get down to the ideal and throw in another packet I know you have plenty .
The best thing is even though you killed the yeast, the first packet doesn't go to complete waste as it acts as a nutrient for the second! Wait 24 hours for take off, so report back tomorrow.

Joctcl - Not sure what temp it was, I primed the yeast for about 15 mins in a warm sugar syrup, but I didn't allow the honey mixture to cool down before mixing and I'm pretty sure that would have been over 30, so I did probably kill the yeast. I shoveled in some more of my yeast mountain in and as a result ....


Checked this morning and Woo-Hoo! Both bubbling away like good 'uns.


Many thanks to you both and RAB for help, plus Dulwich Gnome and tonybloke & others for recipes.

One more simplistic question - the bubbly filtery things that go in the top of the demijohn come with little red caps (as per Shabro post #83 in http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=5443 ) - what do these do, just keep the dust out?

 

[joctcl]

Allow C02 Out and stop bacteria getting in, you should have the water sterile so a campden tablet set on the top after she starts bubbling or use vodka instead.

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Allow C02 Out and stop bacteria getting in, you should have the water sterile so a campden tablet set on the top after she starts bubbling or use vodka instead.

Ah, so much to learn, thank you! If I want to top up the demijohn with water with or without honey at a later date, does that need boiling (and cooling!) beforehand?

 

[oliver90owner]

Sanitation is an all-important part of beer/winemaking.

Far better to keep the nasties out than deal with their results (usually a case of pouring all your efforts down the drain). Mains tap water should be good. Clean the tap, mind!

RAB

 

[psafloyd]

Well my first purchase of kit got left behind in a restaurant, the replacement shop had no hydrometer so I went blindly into the process.

Made 2 gallons in the end, and after a few hours one was bubbling away happily. The other was still calm the following morning -I fear I may have done in the yeast by using too hot a honey mixture (is such a thing possible?). I took a punt at adding more yeast with a vigorous shake this morning, but a couple of hours later still no sign of life.

Live and learn!

I made some about eight weeks ago and did it cold. It fermented beautifully and if I ever get a chance to stop working this week, I am going to check the gravity, as the original was 1092.

Not ideal conditions, for fermentation, however, as too light, too warm, but has fermented well and is clear –-far clearer than I expected.

Not going to muck about with bisulphate, just bottle and see if a couple of months makes any difference (assuming it is good enough to go into the bottles in the first place.

 

[chrismcd]

Give the yeast a good start

Unless you boil the honey mixture - which is what a lot of old beekeepers recommended - you are going to have to deal with a menagerie of wild yeasts.

I would strongly recommend that you get your starter culture of wine yeast going in warm, sugary water a good hour before you add it to your mix.

IIRC yeast reproduces every 20 minutes and it also needs time to get going after having been freeze dried - so the longer you give your culture time to get going the better your chances of a fermentation dominated by the yeast you paid for!

 

[oliver90owner]

No need to get it that hot (boiling). Yeasts are all killed by pasteurisation and 60 degrees for a few minutes is likely sufficient.

Scum formation is a real hassle, if not removed, as the initial fermentation is likely to foam through the airlock, possibly blocking it completely. Potential for a considerable mess!!!

As chris re the yeast rehydration. It can be done a day or more before addition, if less yeast is available, as the yeast is encouraged to multiply before being pitched. I usually watch for CO2 being produced, so I am confident the yeast is still viable (done in a smallish vessel, completely sealed with cling fim and await the cling film stretching!).

The usual rule of thumb is to pitch when the starter and bulk must are within about 5 degrees to avoid shocking the yeast colony. Many yeasts will survive at 40 C, but may be - err - a bit depleted, as many
strains do not appreciate temps over 35, at best.

Winemaking is a bit like beekeeping; often more than a single route to success and relatively a series of simple manipulations. Sanitation is as important as retaining a colony queenright - very important. Temperature control is a priority - just like your wintef bees - and all the other manipulations are simple but necessary. Patience required before any panic sets in. Yeah, a bit like beekeeping....