How do we protect our native bee species

[Erichalfbee]

with a typical frame showing a nice oval of brood surrounded by pollen and Honey. Whereas at the same time of year my other "strains" and "designer" bees are solid brood across their central frames with no room left for pollen or honey storage.

I have read that Amm tend to lay down pollen in a ring around the brood rather than in an arc on top.

 

[B+.]

Just badly written on my part and I can understand how you might have misread it.

My apologies

 

[Finman]

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No room left for pollen.... It depends where yout put excluder. It is not bees' fault.

I use 3 brood boxes, and in the middle of summer lowest box is full of pollen. And no excluder. But if lowest box has new white combs, they do not put much pollen into the combs. They love to store it into black combs.

Bees store pollen next to brood.

One frame of frood consumes one frame of pollen. They pollen logistics is huge when you think collecting, storing and eating and poo things.

2 boxes of brood consumes 2 boxes of pollen in 3 weeks.
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[Beefriendly]

I have read that Amm tend to lay down pollen in a ring around the brood rather than in an arc on top.

Seems I'm having trouble with words today....that was what I tried to describe.

 

[Beefriendly]

Beefriendly, can you say, how bad adaptation of Carniolans can be seen in Britain?
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None that I'm aware of. They seem to thrive over here.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

I have read that Amm tend to lay down pollen in a ring around the brood rather than in an arc on top.

A ring of pollen around and below the brood nest and at times having some pollen in the brood nest area is a characteristic of AMM.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Why do some people take great pleasure in trying to suggest these bees were wiped out?

I am not aware of anyone here taking pleasure in suggesting that AMM were "wiped out", quite the contrary in fact.
What you have seen is repeated requests for any evidence that they were not decimated by the IOW disease and that the present somewhat fashionable concept of the "The Native Bee" is a myth. Perhaps you can provide such information?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Seems I'm having trouble with words today....that was what I tried to describe.

No you're not I was agreeing with you

 

[Swarm]

I am not aware of anyone here taking pleasure in suggesting that AMM were "wiped out", quite the contrary in fact.
What you have seen is repeated requests for any evidence that they were not decimated by the IOW disease and that the present somewhat fashionable concept of the "The Native Bee" is a myth. Perhaps you can provide such information?

Oh come off it and think of a better word than decimate if you are trying to prove they don't exist.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

Oh come off it and think of a better word than decimate if you are trying to prove they don't exist.

Sadly, a very feeble and inept response which in no way addresses the question.
May I, with respect, suggest you do your own independent research and do not rely on, or allow yourself to be influenced by the propaganda emanating from the native bee societies, who have their own hidden agenda.

 

[B+.]

German Carniolan are really locally adapted. It it not many kilometres to Britain from Holland, where Carniolan Breeding Project is coordinated. From coast to coast it is about 170 km. It is same as my trip from my city home to my summer cottage.
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When Finland started to use Carniolans about 30 years ago, it was better adapted in our conditions than Black Bee ever.

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Actually Finman, the overall programme is co-ordinated from Länderinstitut für Bienenkunde Hohen Neuendorf, Germany (https://www2.hu-berlin.de/bienenkunde/). The Dutch group is co-ordinated by Prof Brascamp at Wagenngen University (http://www.wur.nl/en/Persons/prof.dr.ir.-EW-Pim-Brascamp.htm).
It certainly seems well adapted to my rural Bedfordshire apiaries. I wish you could see them. I'm sure you'd feel right at home with my hives.

 

[Jimbo]

Actually Finman, the overall programme is co-ordinated from Länderinstitut für Bienenkunde Hohen Neuendorf, Germany (https://www2.hu-berlin.de/bienenkunde/). The Dutch group is co-ordinated by Prof Brascamp at Wagenngen University (http://www.wur.nl/en/Persons/prof.dr.ir.-EW-Pim-Brascamp.htm).

It certainly seems well adapted to my rural Bedfordshire apiaries. I wish you could see them. I'm sure you'd feel right at home with my hives.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Finman]

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In Finland 90% of beehives are Italians. They all are locally adapted (what else they can do)
There are continuous flow of queens from Italy.

And inside their own apiaries beeks have their own strains.

I do not mind. I can change my bees when ever to another stock.

Queen sellers have their own brands and odd names. I do not trust on their brand names.
" Queens from Sea Eagle Bee Farm!

On official papers it is said that Finland has 200 black bee hives.

Why I tell this.... A story about bee races' adaptation to each local harsh environment ......... We has that same story with Black Bees, where Italian bees live as well.
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[Finman]

It certainly seems well adapted to my rural Bedfordshire apiaries. I wish you could see them. .

Bedfordshire weather temps are now + 10C. Nights -2. Hard to believe that bees can adapt to such cold climate.

Our weathers have fluctuated this winter between +3 and -20C. We say this winter warm. Bees are happy. They can reorganize easily the cluster from empty combs onto new store combs. Food consumption will be small.

A third warm winter here. Not so much snow that we could ski. Sea does not have ice cover.
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[user 6228]

adaptation is not only to cold temperatures. but also to light levels and available hours of forage. Although southern Finland has low winter temperatures in the spring and summer it has quite high number of hours of sunshine. Western UK has far fewer hours of sunshine.
(ever been to Manchester). Amm original location is northern maritime europe which has lower sunshine hours than italy or finland.

 

[Finman]

adaptation is not only to cold temperatures. .

The most important factor is the lenght of winter, when bees cannot come out.

In Finland it is 5-6 months. A bee can fly out, but cannot return any more in.

It means too, that how much the hive has stores and insulation that it can live to nect yield season. In Finland that period is 9 months.


Black bee has nothing, why you need to cry for.

I nursed black bees 30 years.

In genes the most important factor in adaptation is, when the colony decide to stop brood rearing in autumn. Next is, when it decide to start again. So, how well it reads the nature calendar and goest into wintering mode.
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and many other things... Like we can read about Fusion's winter. +15 C and he has condensation problems when night is -2C. But he lives at the latitude of Morocco in Africa.

If you look South Finland, it us surrouded by sea.

My hives are 15 km from sea.

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[Finman]

Amm original location is northern maritime europe which has lower sunshine hours than italy or finland.

AMM:s original location was Africa and it moved over Spain to recent places.

Maritime means that winters are mild.
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That term original is those fairytale things like native and pure race.
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[madasafish]

If AMM are such great bees, BIBBA would have conquered the UK with them.
That's 50 years (or so) of failure..which says it all.

 

[Beefriendly]

AMM:s original location was Africa and it moved over Spain to recent places.
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There is a growing body of molecular evidence that suggests that it may not have been Africa but the middle east. But all is still a little murky around the edges. As one might suspect trying to figure out what happened a few million years ago.
The last paper can be read on line, if anyone is interested I can mail pdf's of the other 2.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22957195
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1364272
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2411242?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

[Finman]

. As one might suspect trying to figure out what happened a few million years ago.



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With same imagination you may try to figure out, what happened to British native
bees 120 000 years ago, when last Ice Ace started.

I bet that they moved to Africa, and then they returned to British Isles 80 000 y ago.

Black Bee actually picked African genes during Ice Ace trip, but it actually eveloped in Tamar Walley few millions years ago.

Tamar Valley situated in those days near Equator.
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