How do we protect our native bee species

[For want of a better word]

I think that there are lots of Black Bees in Britain. But who can calculate them.

I think that is what the research is looking into?

Yeghes da

 

[Finman]

I think that is what the research is looking into?

Yeghes da

Have you money to that?

 

[For want of a better word]

Have you money to that?

Many conservation biologists believe the best way to manage and ‘future-proof’ natural populations is to maintain the natural population structuring that occurs. This allows varieties to act as important ‘reservoirs’ of genetic variation.

Being alert to this potential loss of diversity among varieties, a group of beekeepers in Cornwall have come together to try and conserve native honey bee diversity in South West of England.

Under the banner ‘B4: bringing back black bees’, the group’s aim is to protect the UK’s native honey bee variety, Apis mellifera mellifera. And recently, they have come together with researchers at Plymouth University to use modern genetic methods to ask how distinct black bees are in this region, and whether much uncontrolled mating with commercial colonies has already taken place.

This project has revealed that while there has been some hybridisation, some apiaries contain relatively pure Apis mellifera mellifera. But the two organisations are now expanding their collaboration and embarking on an exciting new project – including a PhD studentship funded by the Natural Environment Research Council – that will investigate local adaptation in UK populations of dark honey bee.

This will involve using the latest in genetic screening techniques as well as looking at colony traits such as worker production, disease susceptibility, colony longevity and honey yield of honey bees with different genetic signatures.

They will also investigate the feasibility of cryopreserved sperm as an archive of genetic material for safeguarding present day genetic variation, and therefore local adaptation, for the future.

Finding a means through which to preserve these varying traits is essential to ensuring nature’s diversity continues for future generations.

 

[Finman]

Finding a means through which to preserve these varying traits is essential to ensuring nature’s diversity continues for future generations.

But the truth is, that breeding will continue with hobby level.

For example LASI project has been maintained with Private money.

I do not believe much about miracles in your Black Bee breeding.

PS: our country has too a group of "save the Native Black Bee".

 

[SDM]

Last edited by Beefriendly; Today at 05:45 PM.


Chalkbrood has not been a problem since I discovered and started using the now banned Hiveclean!

Vimto with 3% added oxallic acid as a tonic will possibly work as well?

On DNA alone we have some Amm that are well over the 80% UK average.... and have no introgression showing up in the mt DNA which is really encouraging

Yeghes da

Isn't the UK Average something nearer 40℅ Amm?

 

[midnight sun]

You'd first have to define what a Buckfast is. There is no morphometric or genetic test that you can perform to say a bee is, or isn't a Buckfast. Professor Brascamp referred to the Buckfast as a "synthetic" strain since it is in a constant state of flux, depending on periodic contributions from stable races to maintain the hetoresis effect which it is so well known for. By synthetic, he meant it is man-made and didn't evolve in the same way as the geographic races did.

Perhaps I should have put the word Buckfast in quotes to show it was the claim of the poster and not a fact or my opinion?

 

[Finman]

.
Who is the author! Published: 11 July 2012 |

The rare apis mellifera mellifera or British Black honeybee are the only species of bee to have survived a strain of the Spanish fluwhich wiped out what was thought to be every single bee in the UK


A rare 'black' honeybee which was thought to have been wiped out by a strain of Spanish flu in 1919 has been rediscovered in the rafters of a church in Northumberland.

The rare 'British Black' is much darker than other bees, and developed in Britain after the last ice age.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ch-rafters-nearly-80-years.html#ixzz4WmS1cKYb
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...bee-alive-church-rafters-nearly-80-years.html


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[Beefriendly]

- both queens were superceded within a month or so of drones becoming available - suggesting that they were the result of poor queen-raising practice.

When the colonies in question were small, then the bees were fairly docile - but as the colony size increased, this docility changed dramatically: running on the comb, clouds of bees in the air during inspections, over-defensiveness resulting in unprovoked attacks and laying siege to the house -

I'm slightly puzzled here, you say both of your original Amm queens were superceded quite quickly, how can you attribute these characteristics to them?
The ones I had did non of this, even when large colonies...except the running on the combs which I found most entertaining after being used to more laid back bees.
I certainly don't think they are honey monsters, but they were a different class compared to my local mongrels....which your description reminds me of all too well. I thought they (Amm's) would be an ideal bee strain for a hobbyist not wanting large colonies or large amounts of honey to deal with.
Of course you have the same problems with keeping them "pure", as applies to any "pure" strain, you need a constant input of queens as their blood lines quickly get diluted by breeding with local mongrel drones and you revert back to local phenotype within a couple of generations.

 

[Fusion_power]

It is strange that Brother Adam knew everything.

This might be because he kept bees more years than you or I. I think he may have kept bees longer than Hoppy though I understand Hoppy has pictures of himself riding his dinosaur to school.

 

[Finman]

This might be because he kept bees more years than you or I. I think he may have kept bees longer than Hoppy though I understand Hoppy has pictures of himself riding his dinosaur to school.

Might be

 

[Quis Custodiet]

The are many instances of bought in AMM queens being superseded soon after introduction. Chalk brood is also a very common occurrence and neither is AMM especially docile even when purchased from a "reputable breeder". It is of course the prerogative of anyone who wishes to keep this sub species to do so, I have no objection to that......live and let live.
What I cannot comprehend is why there is continued reference to conserving "The native black bee"., when nobody is able to provide any evidence that it exists. There is without a doubt quite a significant population of black bees in these islands. But all the evidence indicates that this population is descended from bees imported in the aftermath of the IOW disease....so how can they be native?

 

[Finman]

....so how can they be native?

Since Ice Ace, even if AMM was the last bee race which moved to Europe from Africa.

Before Gene mapping 2003 it was thought that Black Bee is an original bee race and other melliferas have been born from black bee.

Native bee is mere mythology. Who knows how human has moved bee hives around the Europe. Black bee is near relative to Spanish bees.

Beekeepers are full of fairytales, and new fairytales arise all the time. Every village has its native bees.

Essential part of bee races is Ice Ace. But bees cannot live on tundra. Ice Ace did that and that 10 000 years ago, and the bee developed millions of years ago. Many many Ice Ages ago....

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[Finman]

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Last Ice Ace in Europe started 120 000 years ago.

18 000 years ago Glacier covered Europe this way

It is sure that Black Bee has not born in British isles, not after or before Ice Ace.

It has moved to Spain via Gibraltar. AMM is nearest genetical relationship to north-west African AM intermissa bees.

"The latest research into Irish DNA has confirmed that the early inhabitants of Ireland were not directly descended from the Keltoi of central Europe. In fact the closest genetic relatives of the Irish in Europe are to be found in the north of Spain in the region known as the Basque Country. These same ancestors are shared to an extent with the people of Britain - especially the Scottish. "

. Perhaps they took first beehives from Spain.
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[Erichalfbee]

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Last Ice Ace in Europe started 120 000 years ago.

18 000 years ago Glacier covered Europe this way

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Not Cornwall I note

 

[Beefriendly]

What I cannot comprehend is why there is continued reference to conserving "The native black bee"., when nobody is able to provide any evidence that it exists. There is without a doubt quite a significant population of black bees in these islands. But all the evidence indicates that this population is descended from bees imported in the aftermath of the IOW disease....so how can they be native?

Spot on, even the supposed "purest" from Colonsay show traces of Australian and New Zealand linguista in their current genenome. I wouldn't say that our "purests" Amm's are descended from imports, rather they have bred with them and many of their foreign genes are now firmly entrenched in them.
Below is graph from a 2012 study showing relative % of "pure" Amm, note the second population from Colonsay only rated a 0.8 (80%).
I tend to look at them like rare breed domestic animals where there are enthusiasts who want to keep and preserve them, good fortune to them. Just as long as they don't insist that I HAVE to keep only them.

 

[user 6228]

Since Ice Ace, even if AMM was the last bee race which moved to Europe from Africa.

Before Gene mapping 2003 it was thought that Black Bee is an original bee race and other melliferas have been born from black bee.

Native bee is mere mythology. Who knows how human has moved bee hives around the Europe. Black bee is near relative to Spanish bees.

Beekeepers are full of fairytales, and new fairytales arise all the time. Every village has its native bees.

Essential part of bee races is Ice Ace. But bees cannot live on tundra. Ice Ace did that and that 10 000 years ago, and the bee developed millions of years ago. Many many Ice Ages ago....

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they been flowing backwards and forward with the limits of deciduous trees.... remember tGB was not an island then

 

[bpmurray]

I just finished reading Jo Widdecomb's book "The Principles of Bee Improvement" which addresses the idea of selecting the best bees for breeding, focusing on the usual traits. He points out that the mongrels have a high percentage of AMM in them, postulating that it's simply because they are so well adapted to the weather that the drones are out in force when other drones wimp out.

In Ireland, there is a program of DNA testing being done in NUIG which indicates that many of the AMM colonies are actually over 90% pure (I'll find out the precise % AMM of my own bees at the NIHBS conference in a couple of weeks).

On the subject of aggression, I've had only one hive that was aggressive & requeened it and it was perfect a couple of weeks later; otherwise they're fine. If you ever get the chance to see the Galtee bees which are handled by very experienced beekeepers, you'll be surprised at how quiet and gentle they are. Widdecomb suggests that particular hybrids are more aggressive than others, rather than than the AMM themselves. The book is well worth a read.

 

[Finman]

Not Cornwall I note

But I cannot see bees either in Cornwall. It was tundra.

 

[Finman]

I just finished reading Jo Widdecomb's book "The Principles of Bee Improvement" which addresses the idea of selecting the best bees for breeding, focusing on the usual traits. He points out that the mongrels have a high percentage of AMM in them, postulating that it's simply because they are so well adapted to the weather that the drones are out in force when other drones wimp out.
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But virgins stay in kitchen inside looking out of window, when the weather becomes better.

 

[Quis Custodiet]

I just finished reading Jo Widdecomb's book "The Principles of Bee Improvement" which addresses.............................................. ......................................................... The book is well worth a read.

During my last trip to Thornes I bought a copy! It's readable and worth having but there is not very much there that is not in the various BIBBA publications. I can only again repeat that no evidence has been produced to show that the AMM found in Ireland is not descended from imported stock.
I am old enough to have met beekeepers who were alive at the time of the IOW disease, they spoke of total wipe out of stocks. Perhaps some bees did survive, but they surely would have been overwhelmed by the amount of imports?
Amm has evolved to be a survivor (and not a honey producer), it is quite possible some of the selectively bred strains are quite pure as you say. But are they Irish AMM or Continental AMM....that is the question I would love to have answered.
My time unfortunately is limited, do enjoy your trip to the conference and by all means ask the above question from their panel of experts; the response might be very revealing.