A swarm under the hive?

[alisonfosterbell]

Here in northern France it has been a wet and windy spring. With a job and the poor weather i have been late getting into my four Dadant hives. It is still wet but warmer now and I have been trying to manage swarming whilst i wait for some new queens to be sent to replace my elderly white and yellow queens. One hive swarmed a week ago and i managed to catch it and hive it. But today (in the rain) what i had thought was a bit of bearding below the landing zone is in fact a clump of bees who have been building several combs under the hive and palette. Do i assume a queen is in there? I attempted scooping out as many bees as i could into a nuc but i presume that if there is a queen in there she hasnt been in those scoops as the remaining bees didnt show any interest in walking into the nuc of scooped up bees .....
What should i do now?

 

[alisonfosterbell]

Here are some photos

 

[enrico]

Here in northern France it has been a wet and windy spring. With a job and the poor weather i have been late getting into my four Dadant hives. It is still wet but warmer now and I have been trying to manage swarming whilst i wait for some new queens to be sent to replace my elderly white and yellow queens. One hive swarmed a week ago and i managed to catch it and hive it. But today (in the rain) what i had thought was a bit of bearding below the landing zone is in fact a clump of bees who have been building several combs under the hive and palette. Do i assume a queen is in there? I attempted scooping out as many bees as i could into a nuc but i presume that if there is a queen in there she hasnt been in those scoops as the remaining bees didnt show any interest in walking into the nuc of scooped up bees .....
What should i do now?

There are two possibilities. One is that the queen is under there and the other is that returning bees ha e under flown the entrance and not realising that they are outside the hive they have started to build comb.
Carefully removed the comb and look for eggs or brood. If there is either them the queen is there. Obviously you need to rehouse the bees in the hive and block off the gap to stop the bees underlying the entrance. Any useful comb may be strapped into a frame but honestly I wouldn't bother. Just get them back into the hive and block that area off

 

[enrico]

There are two possibilities. One is that the queen is under there and the other is that returning bees ha e under flown the entrance and not realising that they are outside the hive they have started to build comb.
Carefully removed the comb and look for eggs or brood. If there is either them the queen is there. Obviously you need to rehouse the bees in the hive and block off the gap to stop the bees underlying the entrance. Any useful comb may be strapped into a frame but honestly I wouldn't bother. Just get them back into the hive and block that area off

I am presuming this is an open mesh floor, if not then it MAY be a swarm but I am not convinced. Is there a queen in the hive itself?

 

[alisonfosterbell]

There are two possibilities. One is that the queen is under there and the other is that returning bees ha e under flown the entrance and not realising that they are outside the hive they have started to build comb.
Carefully removed the comb and look for eggs or brood. If there is either them the queen is there. Obviously you need to rehouse the bees in the hive and block off the gap to stop the bees underlying the entrance. Any useful comb may be strapped into a frame but honestly I wouldn't bother. Just get them back into the hive and block that area off

There was only nectar as far as i can see. So maybe undershot?

 

[alisonfosterbell]

I am presuming this is an open mesh floor, if not then it MAY be a swarm but I am not convinced. Is there a queen in the hive itself?

Hi Enrico! yes it's a mesh floor. The problem is that i dont think there is a queen in the hive as i think this hive swarmed (i think) a week ago! I caught a swarm that i assume might have been from that hive. But I am hopeless at spotting queens which makes things very tricky! So perhaps this is a clump of muddled bees?
Tomorrow i will put a fresh palette under this hive, remove the problem palette for inspection and then try and get all the bees back in their proper hive again!
I am getting more and more muddled with my apiary suddenly doubling in size with splits and swarms!

 

[enrico]

Hi Enrico! yes it's a mesh floor. The problem is that i dont think there is a queen in the hive as i think this hive swarmed (i think) a week ago! I caught a swarm that i assume might have been from that hive. But I am hopeless at spotting queens which makes things very tricky! So perhaps this is a clump of muddled bees?
Tomorrow i will put a fresh palette under this hive, remove the problem palette for inspection and then try and get all the bees back in their proper hive again!
I am getting more and more muddled with my apiary suddenly doubling in size with splits and swarms!

Keep smiling, sometimes your apiary gets like that, you need to sort out how many hives are ideal for you to go into winter. That is the number you will be aiming for come autumn. You reach that by culling the worst queens and combining up to reach the perfect number but meanwhile you may end up with bits and pieces everywhere. Try and keep a track on which are swarmed queens and which are new ones, that may help you decide which have to go. If you have a major flow time in France where you are, then you can combine early to make good strong hives for max honey.
You may find a virgin queen in the clump under the hive so be careful where you put them. Spotting queens is a bit of an art. The secret is to have all your marking gear to hand and if you ever see a queen, unless it's a virgin, mark her. It helps you to know if they have swarmed, if the swarm is yours etc etc.
Keep posting on here and you will get loads of help and advice.

 

[alisonfosterbell]

Keep smiling, sometimes your apiary gets like that, you need to sort out how many hives are ideal for you to go into winter. That is the number you will be aiming for come autumn. You reach that by culling the worst queens and combining up to reach the perfect number but meanwhile you may end up with bits and pieces everywhere. Try and keep a track on which are swarmed queens and which are new ones, that may help you decide which have to go. If you have a major flow time in France where you are, then you can combine early to make good strong hives for max honey.
You may find a virgin queen in the clump under the hive so be careful where you put them. Spotting queens is a bit of an art. The secret is to have all your marking gear to hand and if you ever see a queen, unless it's a virgin, mark her. It helps you to know if they have swarmed, if the swarm is yours etc etc.
Keep posting on here and you will get loads of help and advice.

Thank you so much for your advice and encouragement!
The OSR and hawthorn have gone over here, and the rain and hailstorms have done a lot of stripping of the flowers.The first supers are being capped so fingers crossed!

 

[ericbeaumont]

clump of bees who have been building several combs under the hive and palette.

How did it turn out, Alison? I"d lay money that a Q+ nest is under there.

 

[alisonfosterbell]

How did it turn out, Alison? I"d lay money that a Q+ nest is under there.

Ha ha! You were right! In fact there WAS my yellow queen in that clump and now safely in the nuc! So the swarm in an elder tree i caught last week..... was somebody else's?? I haven't checked for a queen in that one yet but will do so tomorrow as they will have had a week in peace.
Thank you everyone for your help and support! Dream team!

 

[user 819]

Was the queen clipped or her wings looking tatty ?

 

[alisonfosterbell]

Was the queen clipped or her wings looking tatty ?

Not clipped. But i will check if her wings are tatty when i go to my apiary the day after tomorrow. She is a 2022 queen so her days are numbered. I am waiting for a new red queen to come in a week or so. I'm not confident enough yet to rear all my own queens so i am buying in a couple to help me on my way!

Was the queen clipped or her wings looking tatty ?