Honeybees in the Wilderness

[For want of a better word]

A request for our Cousins over the Pond

Reading some of the past American journals there are tales of bee lining for WILD COLONIES etc.
In areas that are populated by feral / wild colonies of bees, how close are the colonies together?
Also any record of the size of colonies and race of honeybee would be useful
Does it appear to be forage availability or places to build nests that give any limitations?.

Here in the UK we have feral colony sites that are repopulated over time by colonies that have escaped from maintained hives, there seem to be no record of wild honeybee colonies, even in the remote areas.

Many thanks
Chons da

 

[drex]

One of Tom Seeleys videos from national honey show talks of plotting bees in the wild. Not sure which but probably obvious if you look. Can't look it up myself as not at home.

 

[Poly Hive]

Here in the UK we have feral colony sites that are repopulated over time by colonies that have escaped from maintained hives

Says who? That's rather a large unprovable statement surely? There could well be happily getting on with it colonies that none of us know of.

PH

 

[mbc]

Here in the UK we have feral colony sites that are repopulated over time by colonies that have escaped from maintained hives

Says who? That's rather a large unprovable statement surely? There could well be happily getting on with it colonies that none of us know of.

PH

I tend to agree, there is the Catherine Thompson paper linked in the recently closed thread which suggests otherwise, i.e. feral colonies die quickly, but it was a very small sample and to me, in the absence of parcels of truly ancient woodland, avoided searching for 'wild' colonies in the most obvious place, let alone beekeepers hives.

 

[For want of a better word]

Here in the UK we have feral colony sites that are repopulated over time by colonies that have escaped from maintained hives

Says who? That's rather a large unprovable statement surely? There could well be happily getting on with it colonies that none of us know of.

PH

Yes there may be a population of truly wild bees, possibly in the most remote of places, however my question was more on population density and limiting factors in regard to truly wild bees.

I did say there seem to be no record of wild honeybee colonies, even in the remote areas

Catherine Thompson's thesis seems to be the only new reference on looking for bees in the wild. However the case was that feral colony sites in the UK are populated by escapees from managed colonies.

I am looking for answers not another argument!

Chons da

 

[Ian123]

As a guesstimate based on observation if nothing else I would suggest feral colonies numbers are half what they used to be pre varroa. Mind you it may be the reduced survival period and not the number that could be more to the point.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

In his talk last Friday Tom Seeley maintained that 'feral' was the wrong word to use for bees as no bee is ever domesticated thus whether they are in hives or holes in trees, they are all wild.
More than one of his talks mentioned the bees in the Arno forest - a totally wild area that has never had any introduced bees or hived bees.
The distrribution of wild bee colonies there, was more or less one per square KM (same figure was quoted for other N American areas too) Ten years after the varroa murrain it was again approximately 1 per sq Km, they had the same DNA as the bees he had studied there in the 1970's (as he had archived samples of each colony) and although the number of different genetic 'queen lineages' had reduced from 23 to 3 they still held the same high genetic diversity as the 31 he had studued in 1977.
The survivor bees were also slightly smaller than the pre varroa bees and yes, they had mites but only in small numbers.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Catherine Thompson's thesis seems to be the only new reference on looking for bees in the wild.

Yes, but I suspect that she weighted some of her findings (whether intentional or not) as some of the areas she surveyed had no bees of any kind due to the fact they were barren areas as far as bee foraging potential is concerned - the Brechfa forest down near me and the Kielder forest. Areas where no self respecting bee would consider colonising. In fact, you will seldom find a sane human in the Brechfa forest.

 

[Lancs Lad]

Just checked Tom Seeley's research and the Arnot Forest is 2.5 colonies per square mile.

 

[mbc]

Yes, but I suspect that she weighted some of her findings (whether intentional or not) as some of the areas she surveyed had no bees of any kind due to the fact they were barren areas as far as bee foraging potential is concerned - the Brechfa forest down near me and the Kielder forest. Areas where no self respecting bee would consider colonising. In fact, you will seldom find a sane human in the Brechfa forest.

There's a fantastic mountain bike trail in brechfa plus the cothi to fish, great place if you're insane enough to like night fishing for sewin or hurtling through woods on a bike.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There's a fantastic mountain bike trail in brechfa plus the cothi to fish, great place if you're insane enough to like night fishing for sewin or hurtling through woods on a bike.

But you wouldn't bloody live there!
Best fishing is either downstream a bit - pontynyswen to the confluence or further upstream than Brechfa and up as far as Crugybar

 

[Popparand]

Best fishing is either downstream a bit - pontynyswen to the confluence or further upstream than Brechfa and up as far as Crugybar

And the rights are owned by whom? Just asking...…….

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And the rights are owned by whom? Just asking...…….

Various clubs - some in private hands: the Abercothi estate owned by Ed Dashwood (eleventh baronet Despencer) from Pontargothi down, then the Edwinsford estate from above Abergorlech almost to our beats at Crugybar (one piece up there is currently for sale) some river from Crugybar up to the goldmines is owned by the National Trust

 

[pargyle]

I am looking for answers not another argument!

Chons da

Oh No you're not ...

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2hwqn9

 

[oxnatbees]

Here in the UK we have feral colony sites that are repopulated over time by colonies that have escaped from maintained hives

Says who? That's rather a large unprovable statement surely? There could well be happily getting on with it colonies that none of us know of.

PH

At least 6 feral colonies round my village.

People don't look up.

The one in the church tower is entering its 18th year of continuous occupation. I check the colonies to confirm they don't die out.

The genetics are the same as local hives... Because the local beeks populate hives with the ferals' swarms.