Hives in gardens

[alanf]

I agree - it's great to be able to sit in the garden just watching them coming and going.

Asking around the local suburban BKA there are a few who take bees to the OSR and have out apiaries on farms half an hour's drive out. In terms of hives, they are the ones into double figures or more and tend to be the most active. However, the vast majority of the members have a hive or two in the garden, at the allotment or in one of the association apiaries which are small and squeezed in corners among housing or parks where there is plenty of public access.

Some locals have been garden beekeepers for 30 or 40 years. All the local associations have been going since the area was built up between the first world war and the 1930s. It's only in recent years that the numbers of suburban beekeepers have been anywhere near to the levels they were when the local clubs were founded.

Suburban beekeepers do have to be considerate. Simple things such as planning your inspections when kids are in school or at least not actually out and playing. Some have hives near churches where inspections on a Sunday are out. You do have to limit the numbers in any single garden to avoid overcrowding and be prepared to do something about aggressive colonies, such as move or re-queen. But it is all perfectly feasible if you can give some piece of a suitable garden over to the bees.

 

[MandF]

I'm a solicitor specialising in accident/injury claims and can assure you that a successful action for damages by a stingee would be highly unlikely simply because you have a hive in your garden. He'd have to show you were somehow negligent in your handling of the bees, and that the act of negligence led to his getting stung, which would not be easy. And as we "no-win, no-fee" boys need a very much better than evens chance of success before we take a case on, the person stung probably won't even find a lawyer to write a letter of claim for him. You can ignore what the insurance companies' press agents keep getting published in the Daily Mail about silly claims. We don't like working for nothing, and the judges aren't any softer now than they were when I started in this game in 1966.
In all my years of practice I've never been consulted by someone who's been stung by a bee, nor come across a case of a successful claim either in practice or in the case books. That's why I'm happy to keep bees in my garden.

Thank god someone with some authority has now put this ridiculous scaremongering to bed... although I could have done with you yesterday

 

[andycadman]

Thank you for your understanding Swarm. In the past I did not worry as much about the bees in school as I do now about the bees in my garden. Even though they are sited well away form neighbours and have miles of countryside forward of them.

If handled correctly bees are just so interesting and educational especially for young people in school - bees have a way of motivating students who are unatracted to traditional Science and other courses:

 

[Dishmop]

My plan "B" was to ignore the neighbours.

 

[thorn]

I couldn't agree more. When I did my last "First Aid at work" certificate (admittedly a number of years ago now. We were told we must not administer an epipen (even one belonging to the person) unless we had been trained, there was then a separate short training session after the course finished.

I am not saying that if you are concerned for the life of a person with an epipen you shouldn't administer it BUT (and IMO it is a big but) in this litigious age there may be very serious consequences. So as far as I am concerned using an epipen on somebody it wasn't prescribed for is a big no no.

Dont confuse the English legal system with American television shows.

 

[thorn]

Civil law is quite different from criminal law!
With civil cases probability comes into the frame ! If neighbours get stung by honey bees and you keep honey bees next door , the court will take the view that in all probability the bees that stung your neighbour were yours and find in their favour ! The precedence has been set on more than one occasion .
VM

Absolute nonsense.

 

[The Cumbrian]

Dont confuse the English legal system with American television shows.

I'm not I am telling you as near verbatim as I can what I was trained by St John's Ambulance right don't to the bit about litigation. If I remember rightly St John's members even have insurance for such an eventuality.

I even have a friend who tried to resuscitate to a boy who collapsed on a rugby field and the inquest tried to blame him for the death as his training was 12 months out of date and so he may have given the wrong treatment.

By all means make your own mind up as to what you would do but from my experience I would/will be very careful.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Funnily enough when we were told in our first aid courses about not being afraid of litigation St John's were the ones accused of scaremongering with regards to first aid - they seem to be an organisation who teach you how to do the job and then warn you not to! we were told they were preaching absolute nonsense

 

[The Cumbrian]

we were told they were preaching absolute nonsense

BY whom?

Incidentally I have also had training from The Red Cross and their message was basically the same.

Not sure its nonsense when I saw what my friend went through at the inquest.

However I say again everyone makes up their own mind but as far as epipens are concerned no first aider should administer medicine (at least that is what I was trained during my 45+ years of undergoing regular first aid training.)

 

[Tom Bick]

I'm a solicitor specialising in accident/injury claims and can assure you that a successful action for damages by a stingee would be highly unlikely simply because you have a hive in your garden. He'd have to show you were somehow negligent in your handling of the bees, and that the act of negligence led to his getting stung, which would not be easy. And as we "no-win, no-fee" boys need a very much better than evens chance of success before we take a case on, the person stung probably won't even find a lawyer to write a letter of claim for him. You can ignore what the insurance companies' press agents keep getting published in the Daily Mail about silly claims. We don't like working for nothing, and the judges aren't any softer now than they were when I started in this game in 1966.
In all my years of practice I've never been consulted by someone who's been stung by a bee, nor come across a case of a successful claim either in practice or in the case books. That's why I'm happy to keep bees in my garden.

Yes as no win no fee you will want a good case to take it on.

But what happens when neighbour with more money than sense walks through your door with a personal grudge with the neighbour and says take this case on??

 

[MandF]

I even have a friend who tried to resuscitate to a boy who collapsed on a rugby field and the inquest tried to blame him for the death as his training was 12 months out of date and so he may have given the wrong treatment.

"Tried to blame"?! Did they? And what was the "wrong treatment"?

More Daily Mail headlines!

Inquests are there to find the cause of death, not "blame" people. Jesus, you people REALLY need to get out more

http://www.medicalprotection.org/uk/uk-factsheets/inquests

 

[MandF]

BY whom?

Incidentally I have also had training from The Red Cross and their message was basically the same.

Not sure its nonsense when I saw what my friend went through at the inquest.

However I say again everyone makes up their own mind but as far as epipens are concerned no first aider should administer medicine (at least that is what I was trained during my 45+ years of undergoing regular first aid training.)

OMG. So if someone has collapsed and is asking you to use the epipen they have on them, you would not administer it? Even as a first aider?

Seeing as this is SUCH a big issue that all first aid organisations are warning against administering "medicine", again their must be a shed load of case law to back up your claims?

And as Thorn intimated, we are looking for UK case law, not a script from Petrocelli or Star Wars or something.

 

[MandF]

Yes as no win no fee you will want a good case to take it on.

But what happens when neighbour with more money than sense walks through your door with a personal grudge with the neighbour and says take this case on??

The legal arguments (aka LAW) is the same regardless of who is paying or how much they are paying.

Fred West's lawyer was paid for.

 

[The Cumbrian]

"Tried to blame"?! Did they? And what was the "wrong treatment"?

Exactly that the legal team for the boys family too the line of you caused his death by not giving the correct treatment - you can't be certain you gave the right treatment its 4 years since you were trained.

OK it wasn't from the point of damages etc but merely long grillings which caused him to be near suicidal as he felt everyone blamed him for the death not were grateful somebody had tried to save the lad. Never stated what the wrong treatment was but said being outside the 3 years certificate meant nobody had checked recently his technique was up to standard and wasn't doing more harm than good.

Seems unbelievable I know but that is the reason I treat the suggestions that attempts to save a life if carried out in all honesty trying to do the best for the casualty won't always escape without trauma for the first aider.


Its also partly why I am no longer a trained first aider let somebody else push to the front saying I am a first aider. (Please note the word partly because I know somebody will tell me that is no reason to stop).

 

[The Cumbrian]

OMG. So if someone has collapsed and is asking you to use the epipen they have on them, you would not administer it? Even as a first aider?

The argument put forward is that even if it is their epipen unless they have used it before they don't know when it is necessary. Not my idea theirs so don't try to shoot the messenger.

[quote}
Seeing as this is SUCH a big issue that all first aid organisations are warning against administering "medicine", again their must be a shed load of case law to back up your claims?
[/QUOTE]

Not my claims! I am merely reporting to you what I was trained. If you don't like what I tell you ignore it. I personally have a habit of believing people with more training and experience than me which is why I took on board what I was told.

And as Thorn intimated, we are looking for UK case law, not a script from Petrocelli or Star Wars or something.

Not sure what you mean by this unless you are trying in a round about way to accuse me of telling porkies. If you are fair enough believe what you like I am merely giving my answers according to my knowledge and beliefs as I assume everyone does with all answers on the forum.

 

[MandF]

Not telling porkies, just making the point that there are lots of ridiculous myths perpetuated based on hearsay, what people might have seen in films, and ***** first aiders (the ones taking the courses, not attending).

And I am in the habit of believing what is actually the law of the land, not just believing blindly what I am told by someone who SHOULD know better. And that includes GPs, who are trained medically, but who do not necessarily know the law.

As I said previously, you may think you are playing it safe and avoiding uncomfortable moral/legal positions, but if you were in France, for example, and decided NOT to give CPR on someone, and it emerged that you could have after they died, you WOULD be breaking the law there.

 

[Winker]

The legal arguments (aka LAW) is the same regardless of who is paying or how much they are paying.

Fred West's lawyer was paid for.

So was OJ Simpsons

 

[chickendave]

So was OJ Simpsons

Pehaps Fred West should of used him

 

[jasonahood]

Would like to start beekeeping next year.
Looking to place hives in friends garden as the wife wont let me keep them in ours.
One side have children but dont mind them being there.
The garden is 60 foot long be 22 and has tall hedges on two sides.
Would like members opinions on the pros and cons of keeping bees in urban gardens.
Thanks

Blimey... nevermind the Bee's, i'd be really ticked off if my neighbour was in and out of my garden all summer.

 

[aberreef]

I'm a paramedic so have some knowledge on this kind of thing. Inquests suck but there has never been and never will be any successful prosecution against a person who administers CPR to a dead person. You can't get deader than dead so you can't make things worse

As for administering Epipens, I'd say if it's the persons own then you can't really go far wrong (unless you manage to inject directly into a vein- what happens then? answers on a post card please).

The danger comes when administering to other people. How do you know what dosages to use based on age etc? First aiders are told not to administer drugs because of the temptation to give something based on good will but getting things wrong. It's safer in this case to have a wholesale ban on drug administration.