Hive growth and wasps

[Gilberdyke John]

Sorry that you misunderstood but yes, we obviously put supers on.

As beginners you probably only had frames of foundation in the supers. Depending on the quality of the wax foundation there can be reluctance to start drawing out comb. There are one or two tricks used to persuade the bees to move into the super and start drawing, simplest is to spray the foundation with sugar syrup (sometimes works). Some people stick the super full of frames under the brood for a few days so bees walk over it and impart "bee smell" to the wax. Most times with good foundation it's not necessary

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I think the biggest problem is that the OP is unaware of any correct method of swarm control.

 

[user 6228]

We're new bee keepers and will probably be on here asking the expert's advice pretty frequently!...Its possible that the swarming is due to the heat?
- Since having the swarms we've added more ventilation and space by adding a second brooder and yesterday we put on a section with extra exits
- ...

In a poly hive/nuc your bees will be okay if you dont add top ventilation or entrances.

for more details see me in november

From the Bridgend beekers Association website
Monday 11th November - Association Meeting Speakers Mr and Mrs Derek Mitchell on Heat Conservation and Hives
7.30 p.m. at Coytrahen Community Centr, CF32 9DW

 

[MartinL]

Yes it definitely had too many queen cells - a lot. We thought about destroying some but others advise against it - I'll check with my gf!

Thanks!

Presumably the advice came from same source as the "Swarm warning"???

Beware the "Extra exits" they're only going to be wasp entrances for anything other than a strong colony

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Presumably the advice came from same source as the "Swarm warning"???

Looks like they have some problems with colonies swarming in that area. I wonder why.....................................

 

[Hywel]

Swarming.

There were several sources that suggested not destroying queen cells. Some at the BBA suggested doing it, others didn't. Some internet sources say do it, others say they leave it to the bees.

Bridgend BA have been very good and gave us lots of useful information. I can't compare them to other groups but we have four hives that seem to be doing well now when we thought we'd only have two so I'm not bothered about the swarming. That's sorted.

What I originally posted to ask about was the growth of a hive and the insect we found. Thank you for all your advice but we don't need anything other information about the swarming.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

well hopefully you'll learn - but anyone who suggests you leave all the swarm cells in place after swarming obviously hasn't a clue about bees - you were lucky this time but most of the time the hive will throw out cast after cast until you have a colony the size of a peanut with no hope of surviving the next winter.
You may be happy with that situation but I doubt people in the surrounding area would be.
Remeber a lot of the stuff you read on 'tinternet is not worth wearing your eyes out on.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Just checking it didn't look like this?

http://entnemdept.ufl.edu/creatures/misc/bees/small_hive_beetle02.jpg

 

[Hywel]

No - It looked more like a bee - think we're just going to have to look out for it when we check next week and get a picture if we can :-/

 

[MartinL]

I'm not bothered about the swarming. That's sorted.

What I originally posted to ask about was the growth of a hive and the insect we found. Thank you for all your advice but we don't need anything other information about the swarming.

Not been here long have you?

 

[Anduril]

The smaller black insect, was it hairless and shiny

No - It looked more like a bee - think we're just going to have to look out for it when we check next week and get a picture if we can :-/

Could be a hairless shiny bee, I await the photo

 

[Swarm]

As a member of Bridgend BKA I can assure any doubters that the beginners course covers these subjects (colony management, swarming, etc) in both theory and practical. Just the same as other associations, some beginners mess up and let's be honest, none of us knows if the advice offered was misunderstood. Again, hardly a reason to call the association course inadequate simply because a beginner messed up.

The swarm warning and other warnings are intended as reminders and not a case of multiple swarm reports in any area.

Hywel, the cost of the course includes membership and insurance for up to three colonies. That number includes nucs, should you have a notifiable disease and you have more (at any time of the year) you will not be covered. Worth remembering for next year.
As GJ mentioned above, the first year is more difficult as you only have foundation to offer them. Feeding is fine for comb drawing but the fine line is when to stop because they will end up storing it and your queen needs that comb to lay in. It sounds to me that they outgrew the available comb, which happens quite often with beginners.
Having swarmed, I doubt your bees need double brood, how many frames of brood are in them? Unless they are stuffed with brood I'd remove them especially if they are full of foundation. You've added supers as well? What's in them?

 

[Hywel]

Thanks Anduril - for a second I thought it might be something like one of the pictures showed but going through the description it doesn't seem to be that. I'm guessing all I can do is get that picture!

 

[Hywel]

Thank you Steve

I've taught for over fourteen years and if I expect my students to walk into a class, listen to what I have to say, and then walk out knowing everything I'd be a bit naïve! I enjoyed your course and I don't believe people should makes jabs at it because one of the students is learning!

So you reckon its the feeding we've done wrong? Instead of feeding them to help them grow let them develop at their own speed? I think we figured because the colony is small to start with they might need extra help. We really did think the swarm warnings sounded as if there was more precedence of them for the moment for some reason! Just something to think about.

Are we able to expand the insurance to cover the fourth hive?

So basically what has (probably) happened is the bees were given feed too early, the queen was trying to lay faster than they were drawing comb so the hive was expanding faster than they had comb for? The reason why we suspected that it was because of heat was because we had a lot of bees near the entrance, like a beard. Could this then be due to the fact that there were too many bees for the comb that they had created? Just trying to get it all straight in my head!

We only added double brood to one hive. They've drawn all eleven foundations and have started drawing five of the supers. We started by giving each hive one brood and one super so when I said we added a super I meant we started with one. Will it slow the colony down or cause problems if we leave the brood there now? Or is it best to take it away?

Finally, does anyone have any idea at the 'rate' at which the new colonies expand? Its always useful to have something to go by!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

As a member of Bridgend BKA I can assure any doubters that the beginners course covers these subjects (colony management, swarming, etc) in both theory and practical. Just the same as other associations, some beginners mess up and let's be honest, none of us knows if the advice offered was misunderstood. Again, hardly a reason to call the association course inadequate simply because a beginner messed up.

The swarm warning and other warnings are intended as reminders and not a case of multiple swarm reports in any area.

Hywel, the cost of the course includes membership and insurance for up to three colonies. That number includes nucs, should you have a notifiable disease and you have more (at any time of the year) you will not be covered. Worth remembering for next year.
As GJ mentioned above, the first year is more difficult as you only have foundation to offer them. Feeding is fine for comb drawing but the fine line is when to stop because they will end up storing it and your queen needs that comb to lay in. It sounds to me that they outgrew the available comb, which happens quite often with beginners.
Having swarmed, I doubt your bees need double brood, how many frames of brood are in them? Unless they are stuffed with brood I'd remove them especially if they are full of foundation. You've added supers as well? What's in them?

I've got to admit that my geographical knowledge of Wales is less than good, or whether Hywel is near any experienced beeks but this saga underlines the benefits of mentoring by someone who knows what they are doing.
Training is as good as the trainer combined with the trainees and the communication between them.
Often a lesson tries to cover too much at one go or too quickly. This is when an extended practical period spread over a season pays dividends. However if the session leaders differ from week to week, each with different ideas it undermines the value of the course.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I've taught for over fourteen years and if I expect my students to walk into a class, listen to what I have to say, and then walk out knowing everything I'd be a bit naïve!

But you'd expect them to at least have a hang of the basics.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

No - It looked more like a bee - think we're just going to have to look out for it when we check next week and get a picture if we can :-/

From the COLOSS site

1.1.7. Chronic bee paralysis virus /satellite virus

Chronic bee paralysis virus (CBPV) manifests itself in adult bees through two distinct set of symptoms. One set consists of trembling of the wings and bodies and a failure to fly, causing them to crawl in front of the hive in large masses. They often have partly spread, dislocated wings and bloated bodies as well. The other set of symptoms consists of hairless, greasy black bees caused by nibbling attacks from healthy bees in the colony. They soon also become flightless, tremble and die (Bailey, 1965; Bailey and Ball, 1991; Ribière et al., 2010). The virus also infects the larval and pupal stages, can be detected in faecal material and is efficiently transmitted through contact and feeding (Bailey et al., 1983b; Ribière et al., 2010). CBPV is sometimes associated with a small “satellite” virus; chronic paralysis satellite virus (CBPSV; originally called chronic bee paralysis virus associate CBPVA), which has a unique genome and capsid protein to CBPV (Ribière et al., 2010) and is of unknown significance to symptomatology (Bailey et al., 1980; Ball et al., 1985).

 

[MartinL]

But you'd expect them to at least have a hang of the basics.

Depends, may have been teaching Latin at a public school!

Or worse, English at an inner city one!

Won't mention schools over the boarder for fear of offence. . JBM?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Depends, may have been teaching Latin at a public school!

Or worse, English at an inner city one!

Won't mention schools over the boarder for fear of offence. . JBM?

I recall Beachcomber often wrote in his column about the herbaceous boarder at the breakfast table

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Depends, may have been teaching Latin at a public school!

Or worse, English at an inner city one!

Won't mention schools over the boarder for fear of offence. . JBM?

When I was in school I was taught three foreign languages Latin, French and English.
One language older, one about the same age, maybe a bit younger and one definitely a lot younger than Welsh