hive change

[denise washington]

just need a bit of advice I have 4 hives 3 of them the frames are on the warm side but one is on cold side would I cause a problem if I changed the one round so it would be better to work on or would it cause a problem for the bees
thanks denise

 

[MuswellMetro]

As long as the entrance faces the same way after the move, then no problem ( ie just turning the Brood box on the floor)

often I have done it by mistake when tired at the end of a long day

 

[denise washington]

thanks for that MM just did not want to cause a problem for them
thanks denise

 

[YorkshireBees]

I agree with MuswellMetro and would just add that if you use OMF's then it cold / warm way doesn't make a lot of difference nowadays.

At least that's what I believe. I no longer bother and run all my hives cold way all year long.

 

[Davelin]

I've done it on a couple of hives and it doesn't seem to worry them at all

 

[psafloyd]

I've done it on a couple of hives and it doesn't seem to worry them at all

RBI (or SBI) said last year at a disease day that he prefers warm way as it makes a better nest for them to put stores at the back and defend as interlopers have to pass right through to get the motherload.

That, however, was pure speculation on his part and just goes to show you should do what you like and seems to suit the bees.

 

[Heather]

I always run them 'cold way' as it suits me for inspecting from the side. No need to lean over all frames to see front ones. ..and bees straight to frame access instead of ploughing through when there is a limited entrance.

 

[itma]

RBI (or SBI) said last year at a disease day that he prefers warm way as it makes a better nest for them to put stores at the back and defend as interlopers have to pass right through to get the motherload.

That, however, was pure speculation on his part and just goes to show you should do what you like and seems to suit the bees.

The Inspector should know better.
On a full hive it makes naff-all difference to the bees - there is a short cut to the back, in at the entrance and straight on, under the frames, whichever way they are hanging.
If the bees are putting stores at the back, they'll put it at the back of a cold-way frame.
The brood nest is 3D, kinda spherical.
Whichever way you slice through it, it will revert to the same 3D shape.


My personal observation is that the only difference might be when building a colony from a nuc - ie when the box doesn't have a full set of frames. In that situation, 'warm-way' working keeps the (reduced) entrance central to the part-colony - as if that mattered long-term to the bees.

 

[beeno]

Hi all and itma,
Itma, since you mentioned shape of brood nest is there any reason for mine not centering theirs in the middle of the frames in spring?

 

[alanf]

I always run them 'cold way' as it suits me for inspecting from the side. No need to lean over all frames to see front ones...

That's the actual difference. Most pick up a frame with both hands and it's usually easier to do that with both hands at the same distance from your body. The choice is dependent ion the space around the stand and whether you prefer working from the back or like the choice of either or both sides. It's for the beekeeper's convenience,

It has been pointed out before that it's only a dilemma if your hive is square and could go either way. Over 90% of hives in the world are not square and nearly all are "cold way" only, perpendicular to the entrance like Langstroths. One exception would be "long" hives like the Dartington which are "warm" way only.

 

[itma]

Hi all and itma,
Itma, since you mentioned shape of brood nest is there any reason for mine not centering theirs in the middle of the frames in spring?

Likely just bees being bees, but there might be reasons like one side being sunnier (really warmer) or exposed to the prevailing winter wind (really colder), or a slight slope ± temperature difference making for dampness, working around crystallised stores, mouldy pollen or whatever.
They'll sort themselves out!

 

[beeno]

Likely just bees being bees, but there might be reasons like one side being sunnier (really warmer) or exposed to the prevailing winter wind (really colder), or a slight slope ± temperature difference making for dampness, working around crystallised stores, mouldy pollen or whatever.
They'll sort themselves out!

Hi itma,
Not concerned just interested. My hypothesis is that they go for the side with least range in temperature!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm assuming your hives are cold way? as was mentioned earlier in this thread bees tend to have the brood near the entrance and stores in the back - in a warm way hive this would show as the cluster being central to the frame but starting in the frame nearer the entrance; the frames further back being all stores - imagine a cold way set up being a cross section of this 'ball' thus you would have the majority of brood being up close to the entrance wall side of the frame and more stores being stacked at the rear wall side.
as the brood 'ball' expands it can't move further to the 'front' but will displace stores at the back to the top of the brood arch thus as the season progresses will appear to be more 'central' to the frame.
In a warm way set up this would just mean less frames at the back being made up of all stores.

 

[denise washington]

Thanks all for your advice just needed to know as I did not want to upset the bees
thanks denise

 

[beeno]

I'm assuming your hives are cold way? as was mentioned earlier in this thread bees tend to have the brood near the entrance and stores in the back - in a warm way hive this would show as the cluster being central to the frame but starting in the frame nearer the entrance; the frames further back being all stores - imagine a cold way set up being a cross section of this 'ball' thus you would have the majority of brood being up close to the entrance wall side of the frame and more stores being stacked at the rear wall side.
as the brood 'ball' expands it can't move further to the 'front' but will displace stores at the back to the top of the brood arch thus as the season progresses will appear to be more 'central' to the frame.
In a warm way set up this would just mean less frames at the back being made up of all stores.

"Are you talking to me Kid?" Warm way.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

"Are you talking to me Kid?" Warm way.

So that theory out the window then - in that case I go with ITMA's theory - mine tend to like moving more to the right hand side (whilst looking at the entrance) of the hive - regardless of which direction the entrance is pointing.
Mine are all cold way and often develop a 'cold way' pattern of stores to one side of the frame (furthest from the entrance) with the brood on the opposite side. All my entrances, being under-floor types are open the length of the hive throughout the year - on the Welsh ones that is - the ones in Africa have a reduced size entrance at all times as they have been nailed in place that way and they seem to cope with it even in a flow

 

[beeno]

Hi Jenkins,
Mine are all to the left (not my politics) which happens to be the shady sides.

 

[jd101k2000]

I could be wrong... but I am sure I read somewhere that wild colonies always build cold way.

You may want to find out which, in your circumstances, works best for the bees. Of course, with so many variables (different queens, minor variation in hive construction, the fact that they are all in slightly different locations, etc.) you are unlikely to come up with any meaningful results.

At which point the question is, which way round is most convenient to you?

Just don't mount them on rotating hives... that would confuse everyone.