High varroa

[deemann1]

One of my hives has a high varroa drop it could be too late for this colony as there is signs of bees with dwv ,
I have a super on this colony
Maqs isn't sold in Ireland anymore
Can I remove the supers vape with oxalic acid and then replace supers
I don't know how the varroa is so high I vaped last autumn and Christmas

 

[Millet]

One of my hives has a high varroa drop it could be too late for this colony as there is signs of bees with dwv ,
I have a super on this colony
Maqs isn't sold in Ireland anymore
Can I remove the supers vape with oxalic acid and then replace supers
I don't know how the varroa is so high I vaped last autumn and Christmas

Vape them and leave the supers on..I would be more worried why the varroa load is so high this time of the year if you treated correctly as you say..

 

[pargyle]

Vape them and leave the supers on..I would be more worried why the varroa load is so high this time of the year if you treated correctly as you say..

Not good advice Millet ... any unsealed honey or nectar is going to be contaiminated ... fine if you don't mind eating honey with OA in it yourself but if the honey is being sold it could get picked up by the Authorities and analysed and then you are into contravention of the VMD Regs and potentially selling honey with contaminants.

If the supers have to be left on the hives I would put a clearer board underneath them, let the bees come out of the supers, then vape - more chance of getting any phoretic mites that may have been on the bees in the supers, the OA sublimate won't go up through the clearer board. Leave the clearer board on for 24 hrs by which time the residue will have dispersed significantly.

It's still a bit dodgy as far as I'm concerned and I'd prefer not to vape a hive where there is any honey going to be raised in a super for a week or two.

 

[Beefriendly]

fine if you don't mind eating honey with OA in it yourself

Errrr Pargyle natural honey already contains Oxalic acid.....

 

[mjt68]

If you haven't had the efficacy you'd hoped for having vaped previously then will it work this time round? Especially given that there is far more brrod at this time of year and it is only effective against phoretic mites, not those in pupae.

What did you do in autumn and winter exactly?

 

[Millet]

If you haven't had the efficacy you'd hoped for having vaped previously then will it work this time round?

If is done properly it works eventually..I had a troublesome colony last year well I have had one every year..vaping every seven days seemed to be my problem..after changing to vaping every five days I got on top of the varroa in the last colony after the sixth vape late Autumn..

 

[mjt68]

If is done properly it works eventually..I had a troublesome colony last year well I have had one every year..vaping every seven days seemed to be my problem..after changing to vaping every five days I got on top of the varroa in the last colony after the sixth vape late Autumn..

Exactly, something about the way OP has carried out the treatment isn't working for them.

 

[mbc]

Exactly, something about the way OP has carried out the treatment isn't working for them.

Not necessarily, could be reinfection from other collapsing colonies in the area.

 

[Murox]

I agree with Millet - Mine had one vape after Christmas, then I did 3 vapes five days apart during early march. First one = good drop. Second one = much smaller drop and in my case the third one = 0 drop. Currently looking good.

 

[deemann1]

If you haven't had the efficacy you'd hoped for having vaped previously then will it work this time round? Especially given that there is far more brrod at this time of year and it is only effective against phoretic mites, not those in pupae.

What did you do in autumn and winter exactly?

I I vaped every hive for 3 weeks in a row for autumn and Christmas

 

[Beefriendly]

I I vaped every hive for 3 weeks in a row for autumn and Christmas

What were the mite drops after each of those vapes?

 

[madasafish]

I I vaped every hive for 3 weeks in a row for autumn and Christmas

Well it should be every 5 days so there is part of the problem... You are giving emerging varroa the chance to hide in brood being capped where they are safe..

 

[pargyle]

Errrr Pargyle natural honey already contains Oxalic acid.....

I know there are low levels of OA in honey .. but there's a difference between the minute quantities of OA being introduced by the bees and 3 gms being sublimated into the hive .. and potentially up into the super if you follow Millets poor advice.

You might want to risk it .. my suggestion virtually elimiates the risk.

Just have a look at the VMD powers of prosecution if they decide their regulations are being flaunted. Why risk it ?

Quote from Beebase:-

Veterinary Medicines Regulations 2013

The Veterinary Medicines Regulations sets out legal text on the manufacture, authorisation, marketing, distribution and post-authorisation surveillance of veterinary medicines. Honey bees are classed as a food producing animal and therefore beekeepers must comply with these regulations. Generic substances such as Oxalic acid or self-made thymol solutions should not be used and beekeepers are liable for prosecution if traces are found during routine honey sampling. It is important to note that some products available on beekeeping manufacturers’ websites are not registered medicinal products and although available, should not be administered to a colony.

http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/index.cfm?sectionid=110

I think it was Doug Pearce, a few years ago, who got all sorts of stick as a result of his honey being sampled. Can't find the actual thread.

Personally I think it's time that OA by sublimation was licenced but I would still be more comfortable if such treatment eliminated the potential for contamination of the honey beyond what the bees would normally introduce.

 

[madasafish]

I know there are low levels of OA in honey .. but there's a difference between the minute quantities of OA being introduced by the bees and 3 gms being sublimated into the hive .. and potentially up into the super if you follow Millets poor advice.

You might want to risk it .. my suggestion virtually elimiates the risk.

Just have a look at the VMD powers of prosecution if they decide their regulations are being flaunted. Why risk it ?

Quote from Beebase:-

Veterinary Medicines Regulations 2013

The Veterinary Medicines Regulations sets out legal text on the manufacture, authorisation, marketing, distribution and post-authorisation surveillance of veterinary medicines. Honey bees are classed as a food producing animal and therefore beekeepers must comply with these regulations. Generic substances such as Oxalic acid or self-made thymol solutions should not be used and beekeepers are liable for prosecution if traces are found during routine honey sampling. It is important to note that some products available on beekeeping manufacturers’ websites are not registered medicinal products and although available, should not be administered to a colony.

http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/index.cfm?sectionid=110

I think it was Doug Pearce, a few years ago, who got all sorts of stick as a result of his honey being sampled. Can't find the actual thread.

Personally I think it's time that OA by sublimation was licenced but I would still be more comfortable if such treatment eliminated the potential for contamination of the honey beyond what the bees would normally introduce.

I had my honey tested by the NBU 3 weeks after OA treatment : this was honey in the brood box. No comment about high levels of OA..

Of course, it could have been capped at the time of treatment so would not have been affected.

Read https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-00891665/document

 

[Beefriendly]

I know there are low levels of OA in honey .. but there's a difference between the minute quantities of OA being introduced by the bees and 3 gms being sublimated into the hive .. and potentially up into the super .

Err there was study done (reference is somewhere) showing that levels of OA in honey after vaping did not increase significantly. If you think about it, if honey is capped then the crystals cannot enter...and if it isn't the surface area is small compared to all the other surface areas in the hive.

To get back to the original post the important aspect is that the bees get treated for varroa...any honey contamination is pretty irrelevant. If the bees die there won't be any more honey. And if you need to treat all the phoretic mites then bees in supers need treating as well as those in brood boxes.

 

[fatshark]

No comment about high levels of OA.

Probably because they didn't test for it.

 

[madasafish]

Probably because they didn't test for it.

You may well be correct. I have no idea..(like most of my beekeeping then

 

[Finman]

Probably because they didn't test for it.

It has been statement of oxalic acid in honey by EU vets. Amount of treatment of oxalic acid is so small, that vets do not measure it. It is harmless in honey. Carrot has 100 times more ocalic acid.

 

[Finman]

You may well be correct. I have no idea..(like most of my beekeeping then

Do not mix your ego and oxalic acid. At least your avatar is very good.

 

[madasafish]

Do not mix your ego and oxalic acid. At least your avatar is very good.

All compliments gratefully accepted