Hi, Chris here.

[Chris Hancock]

I am very afraid for the future of our bees and beekeeping. I have been keeping well-natured bees for years, and they have provided stock for our local beekeepers' association. Our colonies send out drones which carry their mother's genes, so if we allow any nasty ttempered queens and drones to continue, we will be in danger of losing our bees in the future. There is a strong movement towards 'natural' beekeeping in this area, and maybe it is this or maybe traditional beekeepers who are not monitoring for temperament, but this year three of my new queens have returned from mating to produce really vicious bees. I don't mind where people keep their bees, but we all have responsibilities to monitor health and temperament. Because I know that any drones from bad-tempered colonies will pass this trait on to any virgin queen they mate with, I am having to destroy colonies, because they are not only stinging me but are stinging people away from their hives. If this goes on, there will be very few manageable bees, and the public may be at serious risk of attack. I hate it, but I know that I am being responsible if I destroy these colonies. Re-queening may be fine, if you can endure stings from the previous queen's stock, but it is essential that the drones are also removed so that they do not go out to mate.
This is a bigger threat than many of the problems we have had to cope with, but I beg you to educate all potential beekeepers of this risk and the need to be ruthless when necessary, for the sake of the future of bees and beekeepers.
Thankyou for reading.
Chris

 

[Erichalfbee]

Seems bit extreme?
We all get Iffy colonies
Sometimes really iffy



Here's one.
We requeened it and they were fine
It's not as if you don't get warning. I've never known bees to become homicidal permanently over night. Iffy bees get worse as the colony grows
Seems like disposable beekeeping to me.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Seems like disposable beekeeping to me.

it's all the rage now, always easier to blame someone else, petrol, and walk away rather than tackle the issue.

 

[Chris Hancock]

Seems bit extreme?
We all get Iffy colonies
Sometimes really iffy

View attachment 40638

Here's one.
We requeened it and they were fine
It's not as if you don't get warning. I've never known bees to become homicidal permanently over night. Iffy bees get worse as the colony grows
Seems like disposable beekeeping to me.

And did her drones go out to mate? I would have agreed with you last year, but this year is a different matter, and I came into beekeeping to save bees, not kill them. Things are changing quickly around here, if not around you. These colonies did not change over time, the first workers to emerge were not just followers, they were attackers at distance from their hives. Just please consider the future and stop evil-tempered drones from going out. I want to be able to keep bees and prolong their kind natures. This is the first year I have needed to do this, apart from one at the start, which was an imported queen's offspring.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

came into beekeeping to save bees,

but they don't need saving.
Other than from some beekeepers.

not kill them

But you just said you often kill them instead of addressing their defensive issues

 

[The Poot]

I think you have to make a judgment on your particular circumstances. If your colonies are remote from other folks, like on a small holding or farm, then requeening is the first choice. If, on the other hand your bees are close to others, a school, a footpath, or close neighbours, then you may need to resort to other means to protect those at risk.

 

[Chris Hancock]

but they don't need saving.
Other than from some beekeepers.

But you just said you often kill them instead of addressing their defensive issues

I don't often kill them! I have not had to do this in previous years, and would never do it unless they are dangerous, but all I am warning about is that allowing really bad-tempered bees to spread their genes is irresponsible. I hope that you don't have to face this experience, it is heartbreaking. Overly defensive genes will not be good for any colony and certainly not for the public.

 

[Erichalfbee]

You can’t do much about wild living colonies either.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't often kill them

at least three this season
so what do you consider often?

 

[user 819]

Defensive bees are nothing new in recent times , they just need weedling out.
The blame can be laid at imports and X breeding of the various sub species we have in the UK , one can't choose the open breeding but live with it and improve your lot.
If you have good natured colonies then improve them by introducing the colonies to double brood and foundationless combs , they will produce twice as many drones and inprove the matings locally. It won't happen over night but one can make changes and improve ones lot in years to come.

Likewise one can't tell or dictate to others what bees they can or can't keep.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The blame can be laid at imports

can it really?

 

[user 819]

If I an iffy colony I don't destroy them, I either requeen with a better tempered raised Q or unite with another colony.

 

[ericbeaumont]

resort to other means to protect those at risk.

Yes, move them.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I am being responsible if I destroy these colonies.

Short-term thinking.

won't happen over night but one can make changes and improve ones lot in years to come.

Long-term thinking.

 

[Nannysbees]

I've just requeened a very challenging colony and have already started to see the change in temperament!!!

 

[Erichalfbee]

I've just requeened a very challenging colony and have already started to see the change in temperament!!!

Yes...it's very worth doing. Re-queening is sometimes a challenge with these bees but there is always the option of uniting with another which should give you quicker results

 

[SWEET]

Because I know that any drones from bad-tempered colonies will pass this trait on to any virgin queen they mate with

Well actually no, there is a chance but not a given. There are a ton of factors that need to work before that happens.

Maybe the weather? yeah the weather I reckon

 

[Chris Hancock]

Sorry, as you know, all her drones have only her set of genes, so that temperament will be passed on if they mate. From such determined stock, I suspect they will reach the virgins first in the race to mate! I don't bring this up lightly. I have been keeping and teaching beekeeping for years, now, and only once in previous years have I been unwilling to cope with feisty bees. Never have I needed to destroy bees, other than one swarm from a renowned nasty colony. This year these new queens have been coming back laying totally different temperament bees, attacking people well away from their hives. I am just passing on my concern that the temperament of bees may be changing and this could be a disaster. Please remember that these are not only environmental, but genetic traits. You can change the environmental situation and handling, but the genes will out. If they are feisty, queen changing is fine to change the colony temperament as long as the remaining workers (for up to 12 weeks) are not affecting people or animals, but the drones need to be stopped, too.
Yes, bees hate thunder, artificial scents, red and black and even vibrant orange, and these are some of the things we know to avoid when handling bees, so those things have been taken into consideration. I have to say that I am not the only person who has had this problem in the last two years, in this area.
I do hope that you do not have to face it in yours, because it is really worrying.

 

[rolande]

I have a lot of sympathy with the baseline of this thread; don't tolerate aggressive bees. It's something I've been saying for a long time now, but I can't really see a blanket approach of killing such colonies to eradicate the drones as being acceptable practice. It doesn't necessarily follow that the queen is herself the issue, temper can be disproportionately affected by the father of one of the subfamilies within the colony.

 

[SWEET]

You assume it's the Queens genetics and not the sperm she is holding that is creating those subgroups of sisters you are seeing that behaviour in (her drones are likely fine from parent(s) genetics). Even if it was the Queen side, not all the traits are passed to drones and whatever is passed needs a matching pair further down the chain. You also assume the drones from these hives are viable, you'll properly find most of them have low sperm counts, die or get eaten. The chances are very small your angry stocks are going to make much difference, certainly not worth worrying about.

What you need to do is isolate these stocks with issues and test the Queens drones, then you'll know if it's the Queen or the sperm she is using from all the drones she mated with (even then it's prob only one drone causing the issue).