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Kenson

House Bee
Joined
May 8, 2017
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Location
Dunstable
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Well, about a month ago I said to the Children (7 & 9), "Yes, of course you can just put a box down the garden and Bees will move in" :)

Thinking they will forget all about it in a couple of weeks...

Last Friday bees moved in!!!

A very small "Cast" swarm, about 1/2 a cupful (I estimate 200 bees).

I have acquired a Maisemore Polynuc to move them to. I intend to move them tomorrow evening IF they have survived this rainy weather, mainly because then I can help them with a little feeding. Any thoughts on how to prevent them absconding would be appreciated :)

K
 
Hello and welcome. I don't want to immediately sound negative but I think a swarm that small will be a waste of time. I doubt they have a queen with them.
 
I tend to agree, but my Children are 9 & 7, so I cannot just shoot the bees and move on :)

I took a couple of photo's Saturday evening, they look to be drawing comb nicely, maybe I'll just win a little free "Natural comb" :)

I'll move them to the nuc, so if they are just workers, they can have a nice life, if there is a Queen I will deploy the Queen Excluder :)
 

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. . . . . .just put a box down the garden and Bees will move in" :)
. . . . . .I intend to move them tomorrow evening . . . . . .Any thoughts on how to prevent them absconding would be appreciated :)

You probably have an unmated queen in there somewhere. With such a small population feeding is going to be the major issue. Feed them so they don't waste energy foraging when they need to be drawing combe. I'd take the chance they'll stay and leave them to it with as little disturbance as possible.
. . . . . . they look to be drawing comb nicely, maybe I'll just win a little free "Natural comb" :)

I'll move them to the nuc, so if they are just workers, they can have a nice life, if there is a Queen I will deploy the Queen Excluder :)

Do you have a frame feeder you can put in alongside the area they are drawing out? If you do have an unmated queen then a QE is going to be of little use to you.

The smaller volume of the current box is going to be a bonus to them in the short term I wouldn't be moving them from where they appear to be comfortable.
Maybe insulate?? One for DerekM?????
 
They will survive IF you reduce the amount of space available to two frames. A piece of 25mm thick Celotex or similar in a frame instead of wax will do that . You want also to feed them as above.


Those are musts for survival in my view.
 
There will be a queen present. As above really. She will likely still need to get mated.

The colony should be kept warm with insulation - probably on both sides. Feeding is important for such a small colony. It looks like more bees than you said, but you may have large cups!

It may even have arrived from an small mating box (much smaller than your nuc). I would leave them to get on with comb building and just give a cursory check in a couple of weeks, just to check for brood.

They will need about six weeks after starting brooding before they really start to increase in size (old bees dying off and the three week brood cycle time).

With luck, it could be large enough to overwinter in a full box, so you may need to get more kit - clearly not yet, but it can soon arrive if conditions are suitable. Certainly plenty of time to get to an over-wintering size if the can actually get going.

A frame with some emerging brood would certainly help them, if you could source any, as soon as they are a little larger and able to cope with keeping the brood covered.

Nowt you can do about absconding, apart from the above. All good advice in all the posts above.
 
They will survive IF you reduce the amount of space available to two frames. A piece of 25mm thick Celotex or similar in a frame instead of wax will do that . You want also to feed them as above.


Those are musts for survival in my view.

Its not space but their heat loss that must be reduced . For dummying down to be effective you need to remove all of the bee space all around the frame or dummying material. To reduce heat loss and avoid disturbance a celtotex/recticel cosy over the entire poly nuc is the easiest to do and close up the mesh with celotex to give a solid insulated floor. To give these bees the same heat loss per bee and thus the same chances as a full size coloy you need to reduce heat loss by a factor of 10.
 
Thank you everyone. All received and understood. I happen to have two great big sheets of Cellotex in the Garage, frame feeder is on the way with 12.5kg of Ambrosia. I will set about insulating, feeding and shuttering down tonight :)

I have wanted to keep bees for 32 years, since I was 13. That my 7 year old son made a box and got them to turn up has made this a very exciting time. My only concern is the bees survival and health, so all your advice is really appreciated :)
 
I suggest you find and join your local association .. it "should" then be easier to get local assistance. The BBKA website a find your local association ability.
 
And start reading, good books out there that can point you in the right direction
E
 
What an exciting way to start, if it all works out for you. And I hope it does.... best wishes!
 
It's been fascinating! :)
I have always known I like bees, well beekeeping. But these bees are just brilliant :)

I left them in Kensons' home made wooden box for about 6 weeks.

I had loads of advice, on here and from the local beekeeping society members (BBKA). All great. All contradictory :)

"Leave them alone", "Shutter them down", "Feed them". I also read as much as I could find, watched a lot of youtube beeks and thought a lot.

My wife has the view "Leave the bloody things alone, or kill them IF YOU LOVE ME". She simply says "They are wild creatures, they moved in, they would survive in the wild".

This was a very important time, and it came down to "What sort of Beek am I".

The wooden box has a lid that doesn't really fit and I took to opening it in the mornings or during the day for about a week. When it is sunny and warm they ignore me completely, when cold and wet or raining, about 6 fly straight at me, in a sort of formation (I don't wear anything for these quick peeks) but a step back and they just go back in. Then I replace the lid.

They were mostly not using the "Entrance" and just escaping and returning through the gaps in the ill fitting lid.

I decided one colder wetter morning that I was harming them by removing the lid, and thought "Well, sod it, they deserve a treat". So although I know everyone will go "Oh no! You didn't do that!". I did.

I did it.

Took a bottle of shop bought honey from the kitchen and gave them a treat by scribbling a line of it along the top of a frame (frame 4).

They fell on it like it was nectar from heaven. I replaced the lid and traipsed back up the garden with my head low thinking to myself "Well, if they weren't doomed they might be now because you may have just fed them an infection".

Still it was done.

They cleaned the frame like new. I mean just like new. You really couldn't tell there had ever been a sticky mess there. What amazing little creatures they are.

Anyway, there didn't seem to be anymore bees there, somewhat less if anything, but I thought "I owe them". The children had been looking in at them occasionally too. So I do (did) (still do) owe them. They have put up with an idiot in charge and I had bought them a "Maisemore Poly Nuc" (With miller feeder). Got a child's suit. Some paint. Ambrosia from the BBKA. Some more frames (BBKA). "Candipolline" (Simon).

We painted the Polynuc "Brick Red" and got ready for "The big transfer".

But then I got stuck working in Newcastle for a few weeks and "The big transfer" had to wait a week until a sunny day when I was home.

Kenson got suited up in the suit.
Kensie was on "Camera"
I got plenty of "Frames" 3 with rubber bands stretched around in case I made a complete mess of their "self drawn comb".
I primed one side trough of the miller feeder with Candipolline leaving the other for the Ambrosia.

We set off down the garden. :)

What I have learned is that you have to "Be prepared". Think of all the things you might need. Lay them out so they are accessible. Then you have a chance.

Not saying I do this, but this time I did try.

Nuc empty. Frames in my Standard Hive box. We lit my smoker for the first time :)
Kenson would be on smoker (obviously, 7 year old boy).

They had not been disturbed for a couple of weeks as I had been away, it was about 18:00, but warm.

Open the lid and.....

There they were, about the same number as 8 weeks ago. A few popped up to see us. I showed Kenson how to smoke "Above and across" the hive to encourage them to be where we wanted them.

The Frames came out...
Frame 5. Empty foundation frame..
Frame 4. Empty frame.
Frame 3. Foundationless frame with a "Coaster" (2 inch) sized comb drawn out.
This fell off!
Frame 2. Foundationless frame with a "Side plate" (8 inch sized) comb drawn.
I didn't inspect in detail, as the point was to improve their environment and give them a chance, plus my children were around an open hive for the first time.
But this frame (2) is our bees main project, there was clearly stored nectar and pollen.
Frame 1. Foundation frame with about 8 inches (as frame 1) of developed comb on the inner side only.

As they came out they transferred to the Nuc (I didn't just toss them over my shoulder onto the grass :) ) like this:

Nuc started with one Frame of foundation (Frame 6)
Frame 5: Foundation frame.
Frame 4: Foundation frame. (Replacing Empty frame).
Frame 3: Used one of the "Rubber Band" frames and put the little lost comb back in.
Frame 2: Their own "Drawn Comb" frame.
Frame 1: Their "Foundation Comb Frame".

Miller feeder on and the Nuc was put back on the chair, which needed wedging to get it sort of level.

Ambrosia into the miller feeder. A little observe, lid on and away.

Throughout this Kenson occasionally used smoke. Mostly because he had a smoker :)
Sometimes he got it near the bees. It was not necessary. They are more than docile. But I fear this is because they are so few in number that they know they must not fight.

We watched for a while. The loss of a "Back entrance" was amusing, as the "Rear entrance" bees returned they would thump into the Nuc and then fly around confused for a bit until they stumbled across the now "Official" entrance. We watched 6 do this, but they all made it.

Kensie and I looked in a few times that evening. The bees liked the Miller feeder and had decided that the Ambrosia side was a swimming pool, there were 6 drowned bees (at least). We acquired some "Wooden skewers" and I put them under the drowned bees (about 7 skewers I believe).

The other bees huddled around the dead ones licking of the Ambrosia. To my surprise all of them came back to life! This stopped Kensie crying :)

They have been in there a couple of weeks now.

I was back Tuesday and we had a look (Kensie and I) there seemed to be a young bee or two about (more hairy). The big bees still come and go carrying pollen.

We didn't open the hive because I am convinced that too much hive opening is not good for the bees, besides we can see that the Wifes' hypothesis is true just by watching the entrance. Explaining this to the Children (and myself) is interesting. I went through the what if they are being robbed worry, and 20 minutes let me know that if they are being robbed, a lot of the robbers are bringing pollen, and not leaving with any! :)

On Wednesday we fitted my latest present for them. A "Vivarium" Snake/Tortoise heater. This is only 7w but fits in the mesh floor snugly with an "Upwards" curve. It's a bit of a "Jerry rig" at the moment and I shall wire it in properly next time I'm home. But I think if I get that going well, and their settled spot, IF they have a queen etc. etc. they might get through the winter :)

They have consumed ~1.5 Kilos of Ambrosia in about 10 days, not much of the Candipolline has gone, but some has.

So we know what sort of Beek I am....

I am a rank amateur.
Who loves his bees more than is sensible.
Who leaves them in the hive despite his overwhelming urge to inspect.
Who feeds them, despite hating the idea of sugar water bees.
Who listens to everyone, and although I don't necessarily do what any one person says, everyone would recognise where their advice has instructed my actions.
Who is really grateful for all advice received.
Who is genuinely pleased he let his children "put a box down the garden".
Who will afford enough expensive things to pacify his bee hating wife :)
One who will never be able to "Keep bees for honey", but will keep them because they are superb.

K
 
Brilliant write up ;), i enjoyed reading that and i really really hope you have a mated Queen in there, the best of luck with them, if you where closer and they do not get through winter, i would sort a NUC out for you next year for free maybe someone in your area could do the same.
 
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Well done, mate and very well written.
You are hooked and I hope you really enjoy the journey :)
7 final words though .......
Never give your bees shop bought honey
 
I suggest you find and join your local association .. it "should" then be easier to get local assistance. The BBKA website a find your local association ability.

Bedfordshire will be your nearest association but it isn't affilliated to the bbka (long story).
 
Well,
[Answering]:
[Millet]: We caught a "Micro Swarm" in 2 weeks, I imagine we could catch another if we need, although tonight I'm in Washington (yes, your Washington, not a fake one in the USA) :)
[Eric]: Totally. Your 7 words are correct, and I knew that even as I advanced honey in hand, but the bees looked at me with those puppy dog eyes :)
[B+]: I joined Beds (BBKA) as soon as I realised bees had turned up (not in the book this year). They've all been great to me, been to the Luton Apiary, and Bedford when the "Health" talk was on, met Wally and all the others, well some of them :)
 
The plan this year is to overwinter them. So I will yield to feeding, heating and whatever else is required. I do plan to have another hive at my Mums house (down the road), really only in case "A queen is needed".

So the real test is upon us now, can I get them big enough and strong enough to survive the winter?

Everyone on this site has been really helpful too, so much useful stuff to read :)

Thank you all for this, most useful :)
 

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