Have you lost any colonies to pesticides in the last 3 years?

[Stromnessbees]

How nice!

As you are well aware Doris, your ability to post in Blogs and to post comments on the News front page of the SBAi site were curtailed because of your abuse of that privilege. Most users of the site are there to discuss beekeeping in a friendly atmosphere, not to see the hostility and attention-seeking that seems to be the pattern in your posts. It was made perfectly clear to everyone that campaigning posts were only going to be tolerated in a special area, and you rode rough-shod over that.

Given that you seem to have a problem with self-control, we had to exercise some. You weren't 'severely reprimanded', you just had your posting rights curtailed. However you are still permitted to post in the main area. We gave you a long lead because we knew and liked the Doris of a couple of years ago, and you seemed to be trying to engineer a ban so that you could complain about it elsewhere. Reading your posts here just backs up that impression, and I'm glad that we held back.

This arrived from a friend in my inbox last night. Look out for the twinkle in his eye:

> LOL
> Doris thinks you are 44!
> Nutter.



G.

The blog entry was an informative entry meant for everybody, no slurs or insults whatsoever. But Gavin is trying to turn it into something negative.

And it's still puzzling me why Gavin won't allow the discussion of CCD and related problems in the bee health section but confines it to somewhere right at the bottom of the list.

And for anybody who still thought that Gavin was a kind of friendly guy, see how he turned my genuine sentimental feelings from yesterday around to get a chance to have me called a Nutter.


... By their fruits you shall know them.

 

[Karol]

It's not often, but I have to differ on "Trying to control pests is like trying to treat cancer" - it isn't, it's very different - the pesticide companies are keen to sell their products (as is every company), and they go to extraordinary lengths to keep their essentially daft way of farming going - look at virgin forest, it's heaving with healthy life, all maintained by an incredibly complex web of life, then look at monocultures which have killed the life in the soil, and are dependent like any other junkie upon ever heftier "fixes" of artificial inputs (all to the greater profit of Big Pestco), producing crops which are often sorely lacking in vital nutrients and contaminated by the chemicals used to grow them. This is completely unsustainable, and we have to relearn how to live in concert with nature, not bludgeon it intro submission - cancer drugs are there to try to halt the progress of a horrible illness, pesticides cause more problems long-term than they solve.

As for "evil", Bayer's history stinks, and it can't easily be whitewashed http://www.gmwatch.org/gm-firms/11153-bayer-a-history - I don't deny that in a large company, there may be pockets of good practice, but history cannot be denied, and we should learn from it!

I think you are being very selective about the 'cancers' you're looking to treat Brossy. As much as I buy into the organic debate, it's not just about food security and whether you like it or not we need pesticides for a whole host of reasons.

I'm not an apologist for any company. But nor will I get drawn into an argument which can be applied to virtually every large corporation but which you project only on Pestcos.

I'm rapidly tiring of this.

 

[Brosville]

"we need pesticides for a whole host of reasons" - sadly usually to cover up poor farming practices, or to be an intrinsic part of "industrial" farming ", when we can actually do without them all together, or at the very least cut their use to "fire fighting" rather than being used as a matter of course.
I hope we can agree that the best way with cancers is not to get them in the first place, a lot of which is down to making sensible choices, not smoking, not eating junk food, being obese etc, sadly modern farming systems are often deliberately designed so that "icides" are an intrinsic part of the system (look at herbicide resistant GM crops for instance)...

I tend to mistrust large companies in every field from experience - they didn't get to be the biggest sharks in the pond by being "nice"

 

[Karol]

"we need pesticides for a whole host of reasons" - sadly usually to cover up poor farming practices, or to be an intrinsic part of "industrial" farming ", when we can actually do without them all together, or at the very least cut their use to "fire fighting" rather than being used as a matter of course.
I hope we can agree that the best way with cancers is not to get them in the first place, a lot of which is down to making sensible choices, not smoking, not eating junk food, being obese etc, sadly modern farming systems are often deliberately designed so that "icides" are an intrinsic part of the system (look at herbicide resistant GM crops for instance)...

I tend to mistrust large companies in every field from experience - they didn't get to be the biggest sharks in the pond by being "nice"

OK Brossy. So how do you propose we deal with biting insects that affect livestock or humans for that matter? Or deal with simple things like mosquitos, wasp nests, cockroaches, ants or even flea or bed bug infestations?

 

[Cazza]

OK Brossy. So how do you propose we deal with biting insects that affect livestock or humans for that matter? Or deal with simple things like mosquitos, wasp nests, cockroaches, ants or even flea or bed bug infestations?

Any mention of bed bugs would make me reach straight for the insecticide. karol, you have made a good point.
Cazza

 

[Hivemaker.]

OK Brossy. So how do you propose we deal with biting insects that affect livestock or humans for that matter? Or deal with simple things like mosquitos, wasp nests, cockroaches, ants or even flea or bed bug infestations?

Leave them to it....and they will become self regulating, like rats, badgers, bunnys and foxes ect.

 

[Cazza]

Leave them to it....and they will become self regulating, like rats, badgers, bunnys and foxes ect.

Mmmmm self regulating bed bugs. No, I can't see it myself.
Cazza

 

[Brosville]

Mosquitoes - natural repellants, a film of oil over on watery places they breed, cockroaches you shouldn't get if you keep the food areas properly, they can also be trapped - we deal with dog fleas by "breaking the cycle" using a powerful vacuum cleaner - use of a dog comb can be used to physically remove any fleas (which can then be trapped by whacking the comb on a bar of soap). Bed bugs? - wash the bedlinen thoroughly.......Rats? keep food supplies secure......Poultry mites, diatomaceous earth
Horses are sprayed liberally with essential oil preparations to repel the flies, and also have physical means like fly masks

This is by no means an exhaustive list, but does illustrate that are many ways of dealing with such things other than resorting to synthetic "icides" with all their attendant dangers - I have a friend who has had seriously poor health for years following exposure to a commonly used "wood treatment", nowadays borax is widely used instead..........

There is also a big difference between once in a while using a toxin to deal with a problem, and designing systems that are intrinsically dependent on their use - antibiotics can be very useful, but their over and mis-use have led to dreadful problems

 

[Cazza]

Bed bugs? - wash the bedlinen thoroughly

Whilst I can see where you are coming from with the rest of the list and understand your point totally, you clearly have not experienced an infestation of these little darlings.
Washing bedlinen to prevent these living in your home is akin to sticking your finger in the dyke. Not very useful!!
Cazza

 

[Brosville]

Blowlamp, 12-bore, gelignite?

 

[Cazza]

Blowlamp, 12-bore, gelignite?

Quite
Cazza

 

[Stromnessbees]

Bed Bugs

Easily gotten rid of by burning a sulphur candle.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Easily gotten rid of by burning a sulphur candle.

From wiki.
Sulfur dioxide is a major air pollutant and has significant impacts upon human health.[13] In addition the concentration of sulfur dioxide in the atmosphere can influence the habitat suitability for plant communities as well as animal life.[14] Sulfur dioxide emissions are a precursor to acid rain and atmospheric particulates.

Think it could be in chemtrails.

 

[Stromnessbees]

natural solutions

From wiki.
Sulfur dioxide is a major air pollutant and has significant impacts upon human health.[13] In addition the concentration of sulfur dioxide in the atmosphere can influence the habitat suitability for plant communities as well as animal life.[14] Sulfur dioxide emissions are a precursor to acid rain and atmospheric particulates.

Think it could be in chemtrails.

You don't need to pollute a huge amount of atmosphere with it. All you need to do is close the windows and burn the candle in the room while you wait outside.

A little bit of sulfur won't do any harm anyway, farmers actually appreciate a small amount of sulfur in the rain as it's beneficial to growing crops.

There's always a natural solution, you just need to put your mind to it.

Chemtrails are a much nastier topic alltogether, but I'll let you do your own research on it.

 

[Hivemaker.]

A little bit of sulfur won't do any harm anyway, farmers actually appreciate a small amount of sulfur in the rain as it's beneficial to growing crops.

There's always a natural solution, you just need to put your mind to it.

Natural solution,acid rain... fire and brimstone.

Remember those icelandic volcanos spewing out sulphur all over europe,wonder how that may of affected the bees.

The resulting exposure of the population to increased volcanic air pollution could potentially cause around 140,000 premature deaths within a year - many more than the number of people who die from seasonal flu each year. The UK, due to its proximity to Iceland, would be one of the worst affected areas in Europe with an estimated 20,000 extra deaths from heart and lung diseases. Lead author of the study Dr Anja Schmidt, from the University of Leeds School of Earth and Environment, said: "The two recent Icelandic eruptions of Eyjafjallajökull and Grímsvötn have raised public awareness of the risks posed by volcanic ash to commercial aviation in the UK and beyond. "But ash clouds are only half the story. The eight-month-long eruption of Laki in 1783 was one of the most devastating volcanic events in Iceland's history. The eruption did not produce significant amounts of ash - but instead emitted about 122 megatons of sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere, more than all global man-made emissions in a year. Laki-style events have occurred several times during the last 1,000 years." Historical records show that around one-fifth of Iceland's population and up to three-quarters of the country's livestock were killed between 1783 and 1785. Further deaths are thought to have occurred elsewhere in Europe, but it is difficult for scientists to separate deaths caused directly by the eruption from those associated with other contributing factors such as disease, cold and starvation.

 

[Karol]

Mosquitoes - natural repellants, a film of oil over on watery places they breed, cockroaches you shouldn't get if you keep the food areas properly, they can also be trapped - we deal with dog fleas by "breaking the cycle" using a powerful vacuum cleaner - use of a dog comb can be used to physically remove any fleas (which can then be trapped by whacking the comb on a bar of soap). Bed bugs? - wash the bedlinen thoroughly.......Rats? keep food supplies secure......Poultry mites, diatomaceous earth
Horses are sprayed liberally with essential oil preparations to repel the flies, and also have physical means like fly masks

This is by no means an exhaustive list, but does illustrate that are many ways of dealing with such things other than resorting to synthetic "icides" with all their attendant dangers - I have a friend who has had seriously poor health for years following exposure to a commonly used "wood treatment", nowadays borax is widely used instead..........

There is also a big difference between once in a while using a toxin to deal with a problem, and designing systems that are intrinsically dependent on their use - antibiotics can be very useful, but their over and mis-use have led to dreadful problems

I never thought I'd say this but you're starting to alienate me Brossy.

I get organic farming. I believe neonics should be banned and I'm anti-GM and you just don't know when to stop. If you keep ramming your evangelical eco-politics down peoples' throats don't be surprised if it makes them gag especially when you start spouting totally unrealistic rubbish! Wash bed linen thoroughly in a high rise tenament block in a deprived area - you're having a monocultural laugh!

 

[Brosville]

I'm very sorry if my trying to "walk the walk" as well as talk the talk is upsetting you in some way - you rubbished the idea of dealing with many common problems without resort to "icides" of some sort, and I gave several examples of how I (and many others) have used other methods to deal with assorted pests down the years - personally I would always prefer to avoid use of toxins, particularly synthetic ones about which there is not sufficient data to decide whether they are harmful or not (experience and history suggests they probably are!)

We've used most of those I mentioned in my post with great success, so am somewhat at a loss to understand your ire, particularly the rather unpleasant reference suggesting I'm a racist of some sort for daring to suggest that there are several methods for dealing with bedbugs..... people have been highly successful down the years using all sorts of "folk" remedies, be it steam-cleaning, boiling the bedclothes/bedding, using herbal extracts, airing the bedding in bright sunlight, using diatomaceous earth, sulphur candles etc etc etc.....
It may even be that bedbugs may well be one of those cases where choosing to use a natural (or even synthetic) poison to kill them may be a pragmatic course of action, but it would certainly be sensible to take action to prevent reinfection in the future before it became serious again. A fair analogy is antibiotics - once in a while they are very useful, and can save lives, over-use them and the bugs get immune...(that's science!)

 

[user 6228]

Can we have some reasoned debate rather than false dichotomy.

After all we could end up banning paint thinners as an insecticide and were would our bees be then.


(bees secrete a chemical used in paint thinners to kill/stun parasites )

 

[BeeJayBee]

Mosquitoes - natural repellants, a film of oil over on watery places they breed

Like a mini oil-slick? What do you think would happen to all the other life in an area of water if you cover it with a "thin film of oil"?

A little bit of sulfur won't do any harm anyway, farmers actually appreciate a small amount of sulfur in the rain as it's beneficial to growing crops.

Truly astonishing! I take it you've never heard of the damage caused by acid rain? http://www.clean-air-kids.org.uk/acidrain.html

 

[madasafish]

Mmmmm self regulating bed bugs. No, I can't see it myself.
Cazza

I think HM meant self regulating like journalists and newspapers