Have you lost any colonies to pesticides in the last 3 years?

[madasafish]

If we want to start banning things, think plastics..

http://www.ecologycenter.org/factsheets/plastichealtheffects.html



Far more serious.

 

[Karol]

If we want to start banning things, think plastics..

http://www.ecologycenter.org/factsheets/plastichealtheffects.html



Far more serious.

So the antithesis of your argument is to allow everything?

As a matter of fact we refused to use PVC infusion bags for the manufacture of epidural infusions for precisely the reasons you mention. PVC is already being withdrawn from food contact materials. It's now quite difficult to buy PVC cling film as its been replaced by polyoleos.

 

[Stromnessbees]

sublethal neonic poisoning

I can't agree with that. Colony death from overt poisoning will always be a rare accidental event and any poll which looks for this type of acute poisoning will always come back with a 'no problem' result.

It's far harder to identify chronic poisoning because other factors finish the hives off thereby masking the effects to the anecdotal on looker. To give you an example. Many lung cancer patients die from pneumonia. What was it that killed them?

I wouldn't be surprised if the number of colonies succumbing to varroa has increased as a consequence of sub lethal neonic poisoning. Why? Because sub lethal toxicity studies have shown an inhibition of proboscis function. It now turns out that bees manage varroa infections by biting and injecting anaesthetic into hive pests to eject them from the hive. It is entirely feasible that sub lethal poisoning could interfere with this pest cleansing behaviour resulting in an overwhelming varroa infestation. If that were to be the case, how many beeks would identify the root cause correctly?

How many beeks this year experienced queen mating problems? I'm convinced that's another symptom of sub lethal neonic (neurological) poisoning.

All down to the weather?

If I'm told so. I'm no expert.

So every time it rains, queen mating is doomed to failure.

Not a very hardy insect then?

Can't do well in the tropics then!

Hi Karol

I'm just catching up on this thread. Your reasonong is good and I wonder if you have a link to the study mentioning the anaesthetic used by the bees.

 

[Karol]

Hi Karol

I'm just catching up on this thread. Your reasonong is good and I wonder if you have a link to the study mentioning the anaesthetic used by the bees.

No disrespect Stromnessbees but I'd rather you do the leg work yourself - I would rather not give the impression that we have much in common - I find your outbursts extreme and frankly quite offensive and totally counter productive.

 

[Stromnessbees]

Disillusioned

Sorry to have offended you, Karol.

Maybe I should explain:

I used to be a very keen and happy beekeeper, first in Austria where I studied Ecology and Entomology, then in the UK.

When I started taking part in beekeeping fora (about 2009) I was startled to see what a divided bunch beekeepers seemed to be, when I had known them as very friendly and cooperative so far.

Initially I stayed clear of the pesticide topics as I knew very little about them and had no problems myself, as I live in Orkney where they are not in use.
I made lots of forum and personal friends amongst beekeepers, and if you look at my older posts especially on SBAi you can see this for yourself. At the time I re-established the Orkney Beekeepers' Association and I was even invited to speak at the SICCAM conference in Ireland where I got on great with everybody.


But then came a rude awakening when an Austrian beekeeing friend lost all his hives to symptoms that matched exactly those of CCD (sudden disappearance of most bees, queen left behind etc.). I promised him to research it and tried to discuss it on the fora.

Suddenly most of the prominent posters turned against me, just for asking if there could be a link to neonics.

I was very disappointed that my perceived 'friends' could suddenly be so vicious and I started researching neonics in detail.

Reading and interpreting scientific studies is no problem for me and it soon dawned on me, that not only the link between the bee die-offs and neonics is undeniable, but also that there is a major disinformation campaign going on, trying to discredit every study that proves the link.


So if I sound a bit grumpy at times it's out of disappointment and at times despair about the situation we and our bees are in.


By the way, I have since found the link to the requested article futher down in the thread where you had posted it.

 

[Cazza]

It would appear that as beekeepers we don't see any problems in this country by the poll at the head of this thread and for myself - from speaking to other beekeepers who have been keeping bees for decades, they don't see issues either. Bring on the Rape, they say.

Well you wouldn't would you. If the doses are sublethal but the effects are caused by build up then one would answer the poll with a no.
For myself, I have seen no direct losses from pesticides. The key word is "direct" As to losses from indirect effect, I would have no idea if problems were caused by pesticides or not. It's not about losses as far as I can see but poor performance.
Sorry HBG, your argument makes no sense to me.
Cazza

 

[gavin]

Maybe I should explain:

Thankfully we have left all your posts there in place*, and even avoided banning you despite behaviour that would have had you banned from most internet fora on the planet. A main reason for that was because you appeared to be trying to incite a ban so that you could complain about it elsewhere. Anyone can go and read the truth of your accusations for themselves.

'Most of the prominent posters turned against me. I was very disappointed that my perceived 'friends' could suddenly be so vicious and I started researching neonics in detail.' ... is simply a lie. Do feel free to re-invent history in your head if you like, but expect to be challenged when you publicise your view.

*Two exceptions - your 4am posting splurge when you spammed every sub-forum, and when you tried to repeatedly post links to petitions. All the other stuff is still there.

Gavin

 

[Chris Luck]

Are you part of the administration Gavin?

Chris

 

[gavin]

I'm the administrator, and am glad to have three level-headed folk to help moderate and to discuss any difficult issues that arise.

G.

 

[Chris Luck]

In that case can you direct me to the part of the site where it explains the structure, it's financial status and ownership please?

Oh, and who is "Admin" then or is that you as well?

Thanks, Chris

 

[Stromnessbees]

spin-fest

'Most of the prominent posters turned against me. I was very disappointed that my perceived 'friends' could suddenly be so vicious and I started researching neonics in detail.' ... is simply a lie. Do feel free to re-invent history in your head if you like, but expect to be challenged when you publicise your view.

I really hope some people here will go and check out these posts.

Gavin, You have accused me of lying before and had to retract. Better be careful before you accuse me of lying again.

There's a thread on the SBAi forum, started by yourself, with the ominous title More misinterpreted science - watch out for the spin-fest, which makes very interesting reading ...

May the truth prevail.

Doris

 

[mbc]

Just seen we have a "Definitely - confirmed by analysis" on the poll.
Anybody want to fess up and give us the details ?

 

[mbc]

I really hope some people here will go and check out these posts.

Gavin, You have accused me of lying before and had to retract. Better be careful before you accuse me of lying again.

There's a thread on the SBAi forum, started by yourself, with the ominous title More misinterpreted science - watch out for the spin-fest, which makes very interesting reading ...

May the truth prevail.

Doris

I couldnt get the link to work Doris, but its easy enough to find by putting "spin fest" into the search function of the sbai site.

 

[gavin]

In that case can you direct me to the part of the site where it explains the structure, it's financial status and ownership please?

Oh, and who is "Admin" then or is that you as well?

Thanks, Chris

Hi Chris

I use the same username here as I do on SBAi, which makes me wonder whether we're at cross-purposes? We don't have a user called 'Admin' over there. If its this site you're curious about, try a PM to Admin. SBAi is owned and financed by the Scottish Beekeepers Association.

Gavin

 

[Stromnessbees]

unhealthy setup

Hi Chris

I use the same username here as I do on SBAi, which makes me wonder whether we're at cross-purposes? We don't have a user called 'Admin' over there. If its this site you're curious about, try a PM to Admin. SBAi is owned and financed by the Scottish Beekeepers Association.

Of course Gavin is admin of SBAi. Just go there and you'll see it says Gavin, Administrator on every one of his posts, complete with photograph. I don't know how he can deny this. After all admin is short for administrator, or isn't it?

He started it up and the forum is registered in his name, or at least was registered in his name when I last checked it.

 

[Chris Luck]

I've got it now thanks.

Chris

 

[Stromnessbees]

What's going on?

Gavin, are you seriously denying you are admin?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Gavin, are you seriously denying you are admin?

Gavin has explained it very clearly.....there is no one with the user name Admin on the SBAi , only on this forum is Admin a user name. Gavin uses his own name as his user name on both forums,but is also the Admin of the SBAi.

 

[Stromnessbees]

Gavin has explained it very clearly.....there is no one with the user name Admin on the SBAi , only on this forum is Admin a user name. Gavin uses his own name as his user name on both forums,but is also the Admin of the SBAi.

Thanks for clarifying, it got a bit confusing.

So basically if we want to know who admin of this forum is we just need to pm Admin.

 

[gavin]

I suspect Mark might like me to do this .....

I deny that I'm Admin!!

Just hope that he's not an industry stooge of some kind otherwise Doris will track him down and splash his name and personal details all over the internet.

Sorry its all getting a bit much for you Doris. Can't be easy for you with all these forum spies around to make your life difficult.

The JHI is a research organisation that works to help the sustainabilty of the rural environment, including food production. I don't work for the agrochemical industry as Doris implies.