Grumpy queen's genes.

[bjosephd]

Morning. Big day ahead!

So I have AS'd my grumpy queen colony last week.

Ideally I would have a new laying queen to put in today. I don't.

If I am going to raise a new it would make sense to put in eggs from my favourite queen.

However, it was the daughter of my favourite queen (calm friendly and prolific) that has created a nasty colony!?

So do I raise a queen from the grumpy daughter and see what happens?

Or do I need to try and move sideways to breed from my one other queen who seems reasonably friendly, but not very prolific?

Or keep the queenless side queenless for a while, maybe donate brood, until I can buy in a HM queen or some such.

 

[mjt68]

Morning. Big day ahead!

So I have AS'd my grumpy queen colony last week.

Ideally I would have a new laying queen to put in today. I don't.

If I am going to raise a new it would make sense to put in eggs from my favourite queen.

However, it was the daughter of my favourite queen (calm friendly and prolific) that has created a nasty colony!?

So do I raise a queen from the grumpy daughter and see what happens?

Or do I need to try and move sideways to breed from my one other queen who seems reasonably friendly, but not very prolific?

Or keep the queenless side queenless for a while, maybe donate brood, until I can buy in a HM queen or some such.

Only half of a female bee's genes come from the mother and temperament is also influenced by environment (including the queen's pheromones). Open mating of queens is a bit of a roll of the dice in terms of paternal genes.

 

[bjosephd]

Only half of a female bee's genes come from the mother and temperament is also influenced by environment (including the queen's pheromones). Open mating of queens is a bit of a roll of the dice in terms of paternal genes.

This I'm aware.

So if you had to breed from the grumpy queen or the grumpy queen's mother (who is nice) which would you go for!

The grumpy queen is the most prolific.

 

[colinc]

The mother.
I am in the same position in that she had a grumpy daughter now gone and a nicer daughter who is more prolific than the mother.


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[colinc]

I intend to requeen my new split (off the daughters hive) from the mothers eggs.


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[mjt68]

This I'm aware.

So if you had to breed from the grumpy queen or the grumpy queen's mother (who is nice) which would you go for!

The grumpy queen is the most prolific.

Definately the mother - her daughters have 50% of their genes from her. Female offspring of the grumpy daughter will only have a quarter of their genes from the preferred queen.

 

[madasafish]

Cull ALL the drone brood in the grumpy hive.. They will pass on grumpy genes.

 

[Finman]

Definately the mother - her daughters have 50% of their genes from her. Female offspring of the grumpy daughter will only have a quarter of their genes from the preferred queen.

Drone genes come from 15 drones. IT is quite a variety then in the hive.
You need only one crumpy drone plus a crumpy virgin, and they show to you your place.
.
10% crumpy bees in the hive is more than enough.

 

[Fritillary]

Cull ALL the drone brood in the grumpy hive.. They will pass on grumpy genes.

That's a good point. Esp when you don't use foundation (eg in top bar) and there tends to be more drone comb. I wish I'd done that last year.

 

[JohnRoss]

My advice, split in four, try and gauge the temperament of the four daughters as early as possible and then take a zero tolerance to bab behavior. squash any nasty queens and unite.

 

[bjosephd]

Oohhh

 

[drex]

Your drones will not fly far to a drone congregation area. The queen flies to a DCA further away. This avoids her mating with her sons, and hence in breeding. Your drones temperament would impact on other beekeepers, when mating, not you.

 

[colinc]

Is squishing the queen enough of a test to find out if they have bad behaviour. [emoji6]

Just joking.


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[Finman]

My advice, split in four, try and gauge the temperament of the four daughters as early as possible and then take a zero tolerance to bab behavior. squash any nasty queens and unite.

Why don't you buy a ready laying Queen.
Temperament of four daughters.... IT end of July before you see that temperament. Summer is gone.

 

[colinc]

Your drones will not fly far to a drone congregation area. The queen flies to a DCA further away. This avoids her mating with her sons, and hence in breeding. Your drones temperament would impact on other beekeepers, when mating, not you.

But they could have sons who come back a couple of generations down the line.


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[Finman]

But they could have sons who come back a couple of generations down the line.


Pro

If you have 100 hives + chimney colonies inside one mile radius, do not worry about lines.
.

 

[colinc]

If you have 100 hives + chimney colonies inside one mile radius, do not worry about lines.

.

I don't, and I am not. But then I will not be running mongrel hives anytime soon.


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[B+.]

Cull ALL the drone brood in the grumpy hive.. They will pass on grumpy genes.

I'm not so sure I would go along with this.

The mothers workers are "nice". The daughter (queen) is genetically the same as the workers - she is diploid and receives 16 chromosomes from the mother and 16 from whichever drone provided the semen that fertilised that particular egg.
The daughters workers are "grumpy".
Why are you blaming the queen and not the drones she mated with?
The drone is haploid and receives all 16 chromosomes from the daughter

 

[stevebrowning]

Is squishing the queen enough of a test to find out if they have bad behaviour. [emoji6]

Just joking.


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Yeah, it's called the hive tool test, works every time!!

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Your drones will not fly far to a drone congregation area. The queen flies to a DCA further away. This avoids her mating with her sons, and hence in breeding. Your drones temperament would impact on other beekeepers, when mating, not you.

Is your distance information a personal opinion or can you give a source reference?