GMT

[gmonag]

Campbelltown is a City located in New South Wales, Australia.
Campbeltown however is a town in Argyll and Bute, Scotland. It lies by Campbeltown Loch on the Kintyre peninsula.
Maybe if its not too grey sunrise is around 0845 in the middle of December, by the middle of February its about 0745.

If BST were imposed in UK all year, then in Dec your sunrise would be 0945!

 

[Angularity]

So, stick with GMT (UTC) all year and vary the working day to suit the season? Then no-one has to perform that onerous, difficult, tedious and annoying clock adjustment every six months.
Of course you will still have to change your alarm clock to get up on time, and adjust all the rotas and shift shedules, heating controls, TV schedules, transport timetables and a hundred other things...

Why would you need to change the working day?

 

[gmonag]

Why would you need to change the working day?

As an alternative strategy to get the same effective results as changing the clocks (lighter evenings mostly).

 

[Angularity]

I don't understand why what it says on a clock should control when we work. We're used to doing things in that way, but we don't have to. Cows need milking two or three times a day, spaced evenly. They don't have watches, the farmer can pick when he/she does it.

We no longer have a culture in which everyone sits down to watch Morecambe and Wise at the same time; my kids only watch conventional TV when they're with us, the rest of the time they pick and chose what they watch on the platform they chose.

Most people in an office could work via flexitime, working the core six hours or so and coming and going when it suits. Shifts in factories could start and finish whenever it was convenient, based on when it was light in that area, if it was important. If you're running three shifts, somebody's going to work in the dark, that's just the way it is. As I said, it's a hassle for people who report to bosses in an area with different hours, but that's surely down to individuals to manage.

 

[Amari]

Reminded me of a story my first commander, the late 'Mad' Mike Rees from Marloes told me of when he started on the boats in the seventies - no mobiles, wireless communications restricted to VHF or flags.

Takes me back to the Boy Scouts. Learnt semaphore and got my badge. Amazing how much communication systems have moved on since then.....

 

[gmonag]

There is a case to abolish BST, and it has been mooted several times. The case for a permanent BST in UK is weak and is opposed by Scotland, because it would create very late sunrises. The only pro reason is to align with the EU.
However, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Spain, Portugal and Ireland are all in the same geographical timezone as UK (Greenwich/UTC). The only reason they use UTC+1 is because the Germans imposed it during the occupation in WW2 (Germany is in a natural UTC+1 timezone). After the war it just stuck and was taken up by the EU. So we have the ridiculous situation where Portugal, Spain and Ireland, which are all west of UK are actually one hour ahead!
I'm sure France is happy to be different from UK, even though they are on similar longitude, because they are still sulking after Greenwich was chosen as the prime meridian in 1884 over Paris!

 

[amandaj57]

There's no reason why work, and school, shouldn't start at different times in different parts of the UK. Why not start school at 10:00 GMT and finish at 16:00? I would have thought the SNP would have jumped on this one, even if no-one else did. Mrs. A and I start work when we need to and finish when we can. If she's got a call with California then she finishes later; if she's talking to Singapore then she starts earlier. People working in factories and so on could do the same.

All the farmers I've ever known do what needs to be done, when it needs to be done, whether it's a Sunday morning or a Tuesday evening. It's only if your management lives in a different area and has no idea of your hours, then there's a problem. I have had to explain to my boss that just because it's sunny in Hampshire doesn't mean it's sunny in Yorkshire; eventually he got the point.

Sorry boss. I can't start work at 9 for the winter, someone thought it would be a great idea for my 7 year old to start school at 10 instead of 9. I would leave them to get themselves to school but it is illegal. I assume I won't be sacked!
Can't really see that washing.
Farming is a completely different game, very little of which is carried out 'by the clock' whether it is summer or winter, however, even in the rural farming community I live in, only a small minority make their living solely from farming.

 

[Sutty]

Campbelltown is a City located in New South Wales, Australia.
Campbeltown however is a town in Argyll and Bute, Scotland. It lies by Campbeltown Loch on the Kintyre peninsula.
Maybe if its not too grey sunrise is around 0845 in the middle of December, by the middle of February its about 0745.

For the Scottish Cambeltown (sorry about the extra "l") sunrise was 08.26hrs GMT 31/10/2020, and 09.25hrs GMT 30/11/2020. That extra hour gets used up quickly.
Not saying there isn't an argument for it though, it just depends when in the "day" you want light.

 

[North End Bees]

After the war it just stuck and was taken up by the EU. So we have the ridiculous situation where Portugal, Spain and Ireland, which are all west of UK are actually one hour ahead!

Portugal isn't an hour ahead of us!

 

[gmonag]

Portugal isn't an hour ahead of us!

I stand corrected
Ireland too! I'll get back in my box.

 

[Anduril]

Sorry boss. I can't start work at 9 for the winter, someone thought it would be a great idea for my 7 year old to start school at 10 instead of 9. I would leave them to get themselves to school but it is illegal. I assume I won't be sacked!
Can't really see that washing.
Farming is a completely different game, very little of which is carried out 'by the clock' whether it is summer or winter, however, even in the rural farming community I live in, only a small minority make their living solely from farming.

Whenever this comes up about daylight hours. I remember as a youngster being a guinea pig and issued with a reflective armband. Just so I could be seen and not hit by a car. Now in the 21st Century there are more cars on the road. Not sure what year it was trialled 1960/70's, although i think it was in the late 60's. Needless to say it was abandoned. In recent years the financial industry wanted us to be 3 hours ahead for financial greed.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I remember as a youngster being a guinea pig and issued with a reflective armband. Just so I could be seen and not hit by a car. Now in the 21st Century there are more cars on the road. Not sure what year it was trialled 1960/70's, although i think it was in the late 60's.

I remember us all being given them in school - so that would make it after 1972

 

[Wilco]

IIRC wasn't daylight savings introduced due to industrialisation.

https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/sci...e-tumultuous-history-of-daylight-saving-time/

 

[madasafish]

Whenever this comes up about daylight hours. I remember as a youngster being a guinea pig and issued with a reflective armband. Just so I could be seen and not hit by a car. Now in the 21st Century there are more cars on the road. Not sure what year it was trialled 1960/70's, although i think it was in the late 60's. Needless to say it was abandoned. In recent years the financial industry wanted us to be 3 hours ahead for financial greed.

It was trialled when I was a student in Aberdeen so 1968 started to 1971.
Dark to 9.30am in winter.. NOT fun.

 

[Anduril]

It was trialled when I was a student in Aberdeen so 1968 started to 1971.
Dark to 9.30am in winter.. NOT fun.

Thanks for that, I also found this.
http://70sheaven.blogspot.com/2016/02/school-of-darkness-on-buses.html?m=1

 

[BeeJam]

To me its not a massive effort swapping the clocks twice a year; I wouldn't want to be on permanent BST as it would get dark early in the mornings (up here in Yorkshire past 09:00 in winter). The change I'd like to see is to the date when the clocks go forward which I'd change to either the last Sunday in February or the first Sunday in March; for some reason we put them back ~7 weeks before the winter solstice but don't put them forward until ~13 weeks afterwards. Where I live its light now at ~05:30 but it gets dark at ~18:30 and I'd rather have the extra hour in the evening now.

 

[Murox]

To me its not a massive effort swapping the clocks twice a year; I wouldn't want to be on permanent BST as it would get dark early in the mornings (up here in Yorkshire past 09:00 in winter). The change I'd like to see is to the date when the clocks go forward which I'd change to either the last Sunday in February or the first Sunday in March; for some reason we put them back ~7 weeks before the winter solstice but don't put them forward until ~13 weeks afterwards. Where I live its light now at ~05:30 but it gets dark at ~18:30 and I'd rather have the extra hour in the evening now.

Pretty similar up here.

 

[Repwoc]

extending daylight hours

A myth.

 

[Repwoc]

to maximise daylight use for farmers.

How does that work? Changing the clocks by an hour makes no difference to the number of daylight hours.

 

[Murox]

A myth.

pedant.