UK's first Native Bee reserve, Mt Edgecombe 25th May

[For want of a better word]

Unfortunately Bob, the usual suspects have arrived to rubbish your thread. However, those of us who do have an interest think this is excellent news.

That is so true.... and one is a primary bee importer so probably has a vested interest in rubbishing any thing not brought into the British Isles from continental Europe.

The pie chart info was form an early survey some years ago, work related to Dr. Catherine Thompson's thesis? and appears to show that despite decades of importation most of our honey bee population is still more Amm than Am carnica or Am ligusta... with some populations in some areas nearer to native than we have always believed.

More recent sampling(2016 season) nDNA and mtDNA on the endemic black bees from across the South West shows an echo of the possible introgression of the French Amm imported into Devon some time in the first half of the last century( unpublished ).... however one group of samples show a cluster of Amm around the St Agnes area that are distinctively different from all of the other samples.
None are French.

My own Cornish native black bees are doing very nicely... just wish they would keep off the OSR!

Yeghes da

 

[B+.]

Was there a link or reference to the original work? I didn't notice

I have to be honest that I've only just looked at the chart now. The one thing that strikes me is that only 9 of the 33 samples came out as A.m.m. This makes me curious about the sampling method.

 

[For want of a better word]

I for one never said it wasn't excellent news. I keep a few Irish Amm's (96 percentile), always good to keep some British rare breeds going. I'd just like to think I'm just more realistic about "purity issues". There are no pure native UK bees left. To kid others there are is just hogwash.
Even the protected Colonsay Amm's have some Italian genes in them.
It's good we are preserving what is left of our original native bee, but we cannot undo history. It would be more realistic if people accepted this instead of taking the usual cheap digs and contributing nothing else.

What would be more popular is if these purer strains queens where made more easily available to other beekeepers so they could assess them for their themselves. Currently they are mythical unicorns available to only a few.

Which is one up from past comments from some that the Native British bee is non existent.... we are all related to some ancient ancestor of a swamp monster that emerged from the primeval goop... some more than others ?

Yeghes da

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Civvies or Bee Suits?

Bob

I intend to go to the opening of the Mount Edgecombe Black Bee Sanctuary on 25th May.

Is it a formal thing where we wear smart civvies or is it clean bee suit event?

CVB (whose bees are pretty dark)

 

[For want of a better word]

Bob

I intend to go to the opening of the Mount Edgecombe Black Bee Sanctuary on 25th May.

Is it a formal thing where we wear smart civvies or is it clean bee suit event?

CVB (whose bees are pretty dark)

How much do you bet me to wear my Cornish Kilt?

Yeghes da

 

[Beefriendly]

Which is one up from past comments from some that the Native British bee is non existent.

The pure 100% British Black bee is long dead but mongrels of varying degrees of purity still live on.

 

[For want of a better word]

The pure 100% British Black bee is long dead but mongrels of varying degrees of purity still live on.

Same as your beloved German pure Carniolian or Ligurian no doubt.

Something must have gone wrong with the nDNA and mtDNA analyses of the St Agnes bees... probably a PCR problem... perhaps you would like to contact the Worlds leading authority at Apigenix and inform her?

Nos da

 

[Beefriendly]

Same as your beloved German pure Carniolian or Ligurian no doubt.

I have no beloved German Carniolans or Ligurian bees, so wrong again I'm afraid. As usual you obfuscate facts with misdirection. The Apigenix results show no 100% pure English Amm's, they make my point quite well.

The problem I have is not with people wanting to keep them in special reserves or even wanting to keep them but with them bleating on about them all the time as if they were something special. As Ruttner accurately described them....a modest bee....with much to be modest about.

 

[For want of a better word]

I have no beloved German Carniolans or Ligurian bees, so wrong again I'm afraid. As usual you obfuscate facts with misdirection. The Apigenix results show no 100% pure English Amm's, they make my point quite well.

The problem I have is not with people wanting to keep them in special reserves or even wanting to keep them but with them bleating on about them all the time as if they were something special. As Ruttner accurately described them....a modest bee....with much to be modest about.

AND how may I ask have you accessed the unpublished data that belong to B4?

Methinks sometimes you doth complain too much

Nos da

 

[Beefriendly]

AND how may I ask have you accessed the unpublished data that belong to B4?

Like the Irish Native Bee society you will never publicly publish anything that besmirches your spin on the "pure" native Amm. So someone needs to tell the
Non-one is asking for 100% pure Amm's, they are extinct in the UK. You have strains that exhibit many of the acknowledged phenotypic traits of the old British bee and still contain a good proportion of the native DNA integrated with bits from several other strains. That's as good as it gets and that's fine and well by me, what isn't are exaggerated claims of purity.
But I wish you well with the bee reserve it's obviously been a lot of work for something you feel deeply about and will obviously generate further publicity for beekeepers in general.

 

[For want of a better word]

Perhaps you should think about preserving your genetic stock of near native bees up north?

Nos da

 

[Hivemaker.]

...

 

[For want of a better word]

...

Fantastic.... I have not been involved with the apiary se at Mt Edgcumb up , far too busy with my own reserve!... that area was useless scrub a tear ago.

Beautiful crafted WRC hives and nucs,,, I wonder where they came from ???.... obviously not imported from the far east !!!

Yeghes da

 

[Teemore]

From a genetic perspective, a species is considered "pure" where (if I have recalled the figures correctly) it possesses 92% of the genetic markers for that species. Someone with greater knowledge of the science will correct me if I am "out" on that percentage. Again, from memory, this is a standard applied to all the European sub species of Apis mellifera.

Genetic mutation within a stable population is expected to create a degree of variation within the population and the deviation is measurable. My understanding is that it is erroneous to expect any species to be geneticlally 100% pure: the variation could be in terms of a thousandth of a percent.

I am glad to see people investing their efforts in support of the Mt Edgecombe apiary initiative. It is great to see groups making a positive ontribution to society and the environment.

 

[Swarm]

From a genetic perspective, a species is considered "pure" where (if I have recalled the figures correctly) it possesses 92% of the genetic markers for that species. Someone with greater knowledge of the science will correct me if I am "out" on that percentage. Again, from memory, this is a standard applied to all the European sub species of Apis mellifera.

Genetic mutation within a stable population is expected to create a degree of variation within the population and the deviation is measurable. My understanding is that it is erroneous to expect any species to be geneticlally 100% pure: the variation could be in terms of a thousandth of a percent.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Fantastic.... I have not been involved with the apiary se at Mt Edgcumb up , far too busy with my own reserve!... that area was useless scrub a tear ago.

Beautiful crafted WRC hives and nucs,,, I wonder where they came from ???.... obviously not imported from the far east !!!

Yeghes da

I had to go to Millbrook today so well the extra couple of miles to Mt Edgecumbe and had a nose around the new apiary.

The bees are now in their very attractive wooden hives - eight hives seem to be occupied - and they were all flying - at least they were before the rain came!

See you all there on Thursday - it will be good to put faces to a names.

CVB

 

[For want of a better word]

I had to go to Millbrook today so well the extra couple of miles to Mt Edgecumbe and had a nose around the new apiary.

The bees are now in their very attractive wooden hives - eight hives seem to be occupied - and they were all flying - at least they were before the rain came!

See you all there on Thursday - it will be good to put faces to a names.

CVB

I may be wearing a Cornish kilt!
If not I am the ugly bloke with a tin leg!

Yeghes da

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Well , talk about disappointment - no Cornish Kilt on Icanhopit! Notwithstanding that, the Black Bee reserve was duly opened by Sir Tim Smit last Thursday.

Here's a link to the BBC Radio Devon's recording on its morning show on Friday. If you listen at about 50 minutes in, you hear an interview with Sir Tim who makes some thought provoking points.

Here are some images of the event.

CVB

 

[For want of a better word]

Well , talk about disappointment - no Cornish Kilt on Icanhopit! Notwithstanding that, the Black Bee reserve was duly opened by Sir Tim Smit last Thursday.

Here's a link to the BBC Radio Devon's recording on its morning show on Friday. If you listen at about 50 minutes in, you hear an interview with Sir Tim who makes some thought provoking points.

Here are some images of the event.

CVB

No kilt because I had to get over to Mt Edgecumbe quickly on the trusty Triumph... would have taken best part of an hour in the Defender through the Cornish lanes!
Had three prime swarms to deal with in St Anne's Chapel... someone up there is leaking stripies like no tomorrow!!

Almost missed the Devon scones... cream on first I ask you!!
Every one knows the cream goes on top ( a la Kernow!!)

Yeghes da

 

[Bob Bee]

Farming today

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08rp301#play

Link to Farming today on the Mt Edgecombe opening.