Glueing ID Discs to Queens Thorax

[Plenty of honey]

Hi all. Anyone have much experience of actually attaching the tiny marker id tags to queens thorax's? I have no experience with this and always used to wait until the queen was mated, however, since I've been using the incubator, its soo much easier to mark them before they go off and mate. Whats the best way to apply the glue, I've seen one video with a guy who holds the virgin in a slotted grove while he applies the tiny dot of glue to her thorax and then once the small metal plate is glued on, she's held by a magnetic pen which holds her by the metalic disc.
https://youtu.be/qEqtDDuBUXQ
Seems simple and very effective, but whats the real deal, is it just simpler to mark her with a standard marking paint we use?

I do like the idea of numbered discs. First virgins out next week so trying to get well organised!

 

[Erichalfbee]

PM Paul aka B+
He labels all his virgin queens this way

 

[wightbees]

Could knock them out with co2

 

[Brigsy]

I have one of those and used it last year. I used the style of queen cage where you can line her up in a straight line. Applied the glue etc. Be aware though, I think they balled her because of the glue smell being fresh.
She survived though. A cautious reintroduction is needed.

If I use it again this year I may do it by hand or just use paint like most.

 

[B+.]

Hi all. Anyone have much experience of actually attaching the tiny marker id tags to queens thorax's? I have no experience with this and always used to wait until the queen was mated, however, since I've been using the incubator, its soo much easier to mark them before they go off and mate. Whats the best way to apply the glue, I've seen one video with a guy who holds the virgin in a slotted grove while he applies the tiny dot of glue to her thorax and then once the small metal plate is glued on, she's held by a magnetic pen which holds her by the metalic disc.
https://youtu.be/qEqtDDuBUXQ
Seems simple and very effective, but whats the real deal, is it just simpler to mark her with a standard marking paint we use?

I do like the idea of numbered discs. First virgins out next week so trying to get well organised!

It couldn't be easier!
They don't fly/run when they emerge. I mark them within a couple of hours of emergence in the incubator. The marking tool helps - a dowel with a straight entomology pin in one end (to apply the glue) and a 90 degree bent entomology pin (to apply the opilathplattchen).
Its a pity I didn't video the marking, but, you can see one I marked here (https://youtu.be/qOFyf93q9gk)
I don't use a marking cage at all - just pick it up by the thorax and dab a spot of glue on the thorax (being careful to avoid the wings). Then, dab the other end in some water and pick the disc up upside down and position it on the glue. Its as simple as that.

If you want to be able to trace a queen all the way through her life, this is the way to do it. You can't tell one queen from another with a marking pen.

 

[Plenty of honey]

Thanks Paul, i was actually going to PM you if nobody replied! that was one of my questions, One fine tool to pick up the glue and just water to pick up the metal plate then, great, thank you. will let you know how i get on. i agree with the timing, their always so docile after just emerging. perfect time for light handling really.
While were on the subject, what do you feed them with before you introduce them , i tried royal jelly and honey 50/50 last year and it seemed to keep them going until i got out to the out apiaries, whats your take on this post emergence feeding. It was Hivemaker who recommended i save some royal jelly when cutting out queen cells!?

 

[B+.]

Thanks Paul, i was actually going to PM you if nobody replied! that was one of my questions, One fine tool to pick up the glue and just water to pick up the metal plate then, great, thank you. will let you know how i get on. i agree with the timing, their always so docile after just emerging. perfect time for light handling really.
While were on the subject, what do you feed them with before you introduce them , i tried royal jelly and honey 50/50 last year and it seemed to keep them going until i got out to the out apiaries, whats your take on this post emergence feeding. It was Hivemaker who recommended i save some royal jelly when cutting out queen cells!?

My queens emerge in the incubator (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3727) and are marked straight away (be sure to break down the cell or they may try to clean out any food left in the cell - they can't back out and get stuck). I suppose this is where HM's suggestion of feeding 50:50 RJ and honey comes from. Personally, I just put a little liquid honey in the cap of the Nicot cage. Its really just an energy boost, because I don't hang about. They are marked and introduced straight away.
On the subject of the marking tool, you don't need to get it too wet. Just enough to make the plastic stick.

 

[Plenty of honey]

My queens emerge in the incubator (http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3727) and are marked straight away (be sure to break down the cell or they may try to clean out any food left in the cell - they can't back out and get stuck). I suppose this is where HM's suggestion of feeding 50:50 RJ and honey comes from. Personally, I just put a little liquid honey in the cap of the Nicot cage. Its really just an energy boost, because I don't hang about. They are marked and introduced straight away.

On the subject of the marking tool, you don't need to get it too wet. Just enough to make the plastic stick.

Yes, I found that out last year, queen go back in looking for food and get stuck in! It seems they don't develop their "Reverse Gear" until later in life!!
Thanks for your help!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[B+.]

Yes, I found that out last year, queen go back in looking for food and get stuck in! It seems they don't develop their "Reverse Gear" until later in life!!
Thanks for your help!

You can easily make a marking tool with a piece of dowel.
The pins are only a couple of euros (http://www.entosphinx.cz/en/7-entomolog-spendl-nerez). Size 2 is also used for the pin-killed brood assay.

I bought some tools from Holtermann in Germany but the dowel was a bit thin for my liking...easier to make your own.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Fascinating, gentlemen!

 

[B+.]

Oh incidentally, the queen has an annoying habit of wriggling onto her side in a marking cage. I haven't used one of the new style marking cages which have the slit in the centre. I just got used to holding the queen still with my fingers.
Watch out for the legs coming over the back just as you put the dab of glue on...that really is annoying!
I use the plastic disks so I've never used the Apinaut....it seems a bit expensive for what it is to me. I'm not altogether clear how you disengage the magnet without hurting the queen either. Can you retract the magnet so the queen can run free?

 

[Plenty of honey]

Oh incidentally, the queen has an annoying habit of wriggling onto her side in a marking cage. I haven't used one of the new style marking cages which have the slit in the centre. I just got used to holding the queen still with my fingers.

Watch out for the legs coming over the back just as you put the dab of glue on...that really is annoying!

I use the plastic disks so I've never used the Apinaut....it seems a bit expensive for what it is to me. I'm not altogether clear how you disengage the magnet without hurting the queen either. Can you retract the magnet so the queen can run free?

I never thought of disconnecting the magnet, I though it would be so weak that it would only just hold her and wouldnt need a huge amount to release her!
I confess, my discs are plastic too! Metal Ones are "trop cher"!! Bought them from Icko over here, 5 euros per 100! But they look good!
Great tips, especially liked the one about the virgin getting her
Leg over, while your trying to mark her!! Most annoying habit!![emoji23][emoji851][emoji33]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[B+.]

, especially liked the one about the virgin getting her
Leg over, while your trying to mark her!! Most annoying habit!![emoji23][emoji851][emoji33]

Don't tell my wife!

 

[beebreeder]

Have you guys ever had problems with the numbers literally rubbing off the discs especially over winter, I have one of the Thornes kits

 

[B+.]

Have you guys ever had problems with the numbers literally rubbing off the discs especially over winter,

Yes. For a while I tried different glue. Some of them seemed to mess with the pigment on the face of the disk. The glue I bought from Holtermann seemed to work better than the glue I bought here in the UK.

 

[sipa]

Fish bladder glue is very good, expensive but good. I buy it from a violin maker.

 

[jwchitwood]

Thanks for watching my video. I really only use the metal marking discs on queens that I'm using as mothers for queen rearing. I used to graft all of my larvae by hand. It's much faster and easier to put her in a nicot using the apinaut pen.

Brigsy is 100% right that workers will ball a queen with fresh glue on. One of the points I made in the video is to put your queen in a cage after she's been marked and reintroduce her to the colony. I don't put much candy in. Just enough to delay her release by a couple of hours.

 

[B+.]

Thanks for watching my video. I really only use the metal marking discs on queens that I'm using as mothers for queen rearing. I used to graft all of my larvae by hand. It's much faster and easier to put her in a nicot using the apinaut pen.

Brigsy is 100% right that workers will ball a queen with fresh glue on. One of the points I made in the video is to put your queen in a cage after she's been marked and reintroduce her to the colony. I don't put much candy in. Just enough to delay her release by a couple of hours.

A queen that is worth breeding from is a valuable creature. If you are going to invest all that effort testing her colony it seems a bit risky waiting until she has proven herself before tagging her. IMHO, it makes much more sense to tag vigins.

 

[B+.]

Fish bladder glue is very good, expensive but good. I buy it from a violin maker.

There are some pretty good videos of this on YouTube. All you have to do is boil down the swim bladder to make your own glue. If you know a fisherman and have the time, it seems pretty easy to make.