Free-living colonies?

[alancooper]

I responded to a “bees in my chimney” call earlier today. The chimney had been sealed internally when the house was converted to electric heating and was not in use. Another chimney close by also had honey bees. There was also mention that someone else in the group of a few dozen houses, had bees in the chimney. Most of the group had undergone the same conversion to electric heating. It seems that the chimney bees may have been around for some time. I am guessing that attributes such as swarminess and brood breaks make such “free-living” colonies sustainable over periods of time greater than the three or so years before they succumb to varroa related virus diseases. If I was a beek close to such colonies I would not be looking forward to open-mating my queens.

 

[Sutty]

Or you could wonder if free living colonies that had survived for a number of years had decent adaptations to varroa & would be excellent to mate with! I suspect the odds are against this but it's a possibility.

 

[Karsal]

There's a totally free living colony of bees eight foot up in an big old beech tree 100yds from my home. I walk past it most days. It's been there for at least seven years that I know of. No intervention from anyone or varroa treatment.
It usually puts a swarm out during June every year. They aren't aggressive and people walk past it all day.

 

[Sutty]

There's a totally free living colony of bees eight foot up in an big old beech tree 100yds from my home. I walk past it most days. It's been there for at least seven years that I know of. No intervention from anyone or varroa treatment.
It usually puts a swarm out during June every year. They aren't aggressive and people walk past it all day.

Do you catch the swarms?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There's a totally free living colony of bees eight foot up in an big old beech tree 100yds from my home. I walk past it most days. It's been there for at least seven years that I know of. No intervention from anyone or varroa treatment.
It usually puts a swarm out during June every year. They aren't aggressive and people walk past it all day.

and can you be certain they are the same colony?
Or just the usual story of reoccupation of a deadout by new swarms?

 

[Ian123]

and can you be certain they are the same colony?
Or just the usual story of reoccupation of a deadout by new swarms?

As we know even EXPERTS on free living bees when self selecting their most likely candidates can get it wrong

 

[user 6228]

got a "free living" colony in my garden been there 5 years. In an artificial tree cavity engineered to hve most of the thermal characteristics of those nests found in in tom seely's survey of 1976. Swarms regularly and in summer can be heard from 6 metres at midnight.

Seeley, T. D., & Morse, R. A. (1976). The nest of the honey bee (Apis mellifera L.). Insectes Sociaux, 23(4), 495–512. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02223477
Mitchell, D. (2016). Ratios of colony mass to thermal conductance of tree and man-made nest enclosures of Apis mellifera: implications for survival, clustering, humidity regulation and Varroa destructor. International Journal of Biometeorology, 60(5), 629–638. https://doi.org/10.1007/s00484-015-1057-z

 

[Garry R]

I have often wondered about the resilience and health of chimney dwelling colonies and whether their health could be due to a low varroa load because of the residual tar deposits which will be on the chimney liners. Some nasties in the tar may be bad for the mite.

 

[Wilco]

got a "free living" colony in my garden been there 5 years. In an artificial tree cavity engineered to hve most of the thermal characteristics of those nests found in in tom seely's survey of 1976. Swarms regularly and in summer can be heard from 6 metres at midnight.

Seeley, T. D., & Morse, R. A. (1976). The nest of the honey bee (Apis mellifera L.). Insectes Sociaux, 23(4), 495–512. https://doi.org/10.1007/BF02223477
Mitchell, D. (2016). Ratios of colony mass to thermal conductance of tree and man-made nest enclosures of Apis mellifera: implications for survival, clustering, humidity regulation and Varroa destructor. International Journal of Biometeorology, 60(5), 629–638. https://doi.org/10.1007/s00484-015-1057-z

Interesting. I presume you've got some sort of monitoring device in with them?

 

[user 6228]

Interesting. I presume you've got some sort of monitoring device in with them?

no! monitoring devices don't last 5 years in acidic humidity

 

[steveselvage]

I worked on a house that had bees living in the wall.
It's a huge stone building that's a good few hundred years old.
The bees have been using the place for over 15 years, some years they die out but every year it's occupied by the summer.
I asked if I could use a Flexi scope to see where they were actually living, I assume a void in the stonework but the lady wasn't keen on me disturbing them.
The same farm had a huge European hornet nest and forgot to mention it until I'd bumped it, got 5 stings and was running round the yard trying to get them out of my clothes ending up standing in my pants waving them away so I could get in my van.

 

[Moobee]

Where I have my out apiary, the owners have been there over 6 years and have a colony living in the shed wall that were there when they bought the house. One of them works from home and watches them from her office window. She’s very certain they are the same colony.
I have one of their cast swarms with (now) a mated queen already having laid up 7 frames. They had a OA trickle on arrival and it will be interesting to monitor their mite load.

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

The traits to look for are illustrated at www.varroaresistant.uk

Together with the research papers, curated by Prof Stephen Martin.

Many of the illustrated case studies of varroa resistant colonies in the uk are based from catching swarms from unmanaged colonies where adaption to mites has occurred

 

[Ian123]

Many of the illustrated case studies of varroa resistant colonies in the uk are based from catching swarms from unmanaged colonies where adaption to mites has occurred

Has it occurred? Lots of areas of the world have had varroa far longer and there’s still issues. Even the importation of genetics from such areas that have had varroa for decades before the UK has proven troublesome.
There are also plenty of breeders providing vsh queens. Carnica /Buckfast groups have been breeding such bees for some time.
Given the recent experience of free living bees being Carnica can we assume this is affecting the free living population?
The recent term free living is rather like BIBBA and the new term Local, I think it’s being used to change the narrative?

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

We know the traits and mechanisms of how resistant bees manage their mite loads, as illustrated on the website. Which sub specie of Apis mellifera would appear irrelevant, as they all have the potential. Up to the beekeeper to identify the traits.

Many of the beekeeper case studies (in the Advice section) have shown resistance (ie; not treated) for over 10 years, including 2 commercial businesses. One of which bred out to over 100 colonies, starting with a swarm from a chimney, which was Alan’s original post.

 

[alancooper]

Has it occurred? Lots of areas of the world have had varroa far longer and there’s still issues. Even the importation of genetics from such areas that have had varroa for decades before the UK has proven troublesome.
There are also plenty of breeders providing vsh queens. Carnica /Buckfast groups have been breeding such bees for some time.
Given the recent experience of free living bees being Carnica can we assume this is affecting the free living population?
The recent term free living is rather like BIBBA and the new term Local, I think it’s being used to change the narrative?

The traits to look for are illustrated at www.varroaresistant.uk

Oh to have an apiary with these characteristics

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

The easiest resistance trait to spot is uncapping at the pink to purple eyed stage. One of these cells also has a pupae which has been chewed down. This is where the bees have detected an infested cell and the pupae is infected. The result is that the mother mite loses one of her 2-3 reproduction cycles, as the offspring all die. Eventually she becomes infertile, avoiding the large growth in mites seen in colonies with no or low defences to varroa.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

shouldn't this thread be out of the way in the TF section now?

 

[Steve at Westerham Beeks]

Treated colonies also have these traits. It is an extension of hygienic behaviour already seen against other brood related issues eg; wax moth and chalkbrood.

As beekeepers identify these traits, their bees will benefit from lower varroa. As is seen in long standing, free-living colonies.