Fondant vs natural stores question.

[Bluebell1985]

Do bees have a preference for one over the other?

I’ve very quickly checked my bees today, just by quickly lifting the top and hefting. All the hives feel pretty heavy but the fondant is running low. I’m wondering if they went for the fondant first over their natural stores. Fondant was added in November and much of the natural stores is probably ivy.

Didn’t want to pull any frames out to check stores down below due to temperature.

The cautious side of me is saying to put more fondant on and not risk it.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

bird in hand mentality, they have to add water to both before assimilating it, the fondant is 'ready food' so they will take that with the knowledge that the honey stored in the cells will still be there later if other sources run out

 

[Ian123]

If your hives feel heavy then there’s probably little need for additional fondant. As to what they prefer I doubt they make any distinction, the fondant is exposed and in contact with the bees likely explains any disproportional use.

 

[drex]

If not confident slap on more fondant, then you will have peace of mind. Nowadays my stance is why add fondant when they have plenty of natural stores. I let my bees go into winter with enough of their own stores. I occasionally give fondant in Feb/Mar ( when brood rearing ramps up) and I hhave judged it wrong, as an emergency feed

 

[user 6228]

Do bees have a preference for one over the other?

I’ve very quickly checked my bees today, just by quickly lifting the top and hefting. All the hives feel pretty heavy but the fondant is running low. I’m wondering if they went for the fondant first over their natural stores. Fondant was added in November and much of the natural stores is probably ivy.

Didn’t want to pull any frames out to check stores down below due to temperature.

The cautious side of me is saying to put more fondant on and not risk it.

With fondant there can be the issue of it absorbing water vapour to the extent it starts to run down inside the hive. It isn't always bound to happen, but it might. Wrapping it almost completely with a single layer of cling film gets round this. The bee can chew through it if needed. but leave a small gap and a trail of fondant for the bees to follow. Later you may be amazed by the sight of the bees ejecting the cling film out of the entrance. I was was gobsmacked the first time I saw that.

 

[colinc]

I can’t remember the source but saw it stated that given free choice and adequate supply bees would preferentially choose sucrose rich nectar as a food source over fructose or glucose rich. They cannot generate the heat required to supersaturate sucrose solutions though so invert it to simple sugars to enable storage of surplus as honey.

 

[Jules59]

With fondant there can be the issue of it absorbing water vapour to the extent it starts to run down inside the hive. It isn't always bound to happen, but it might. Wrapping it almost completely with a single layer of cling film gets round this. The bee can chew through it if needed. but leave a small gap and a trail of fondant for the bees to follow. Later you may be amazed by the sight of the bees ejecting the cling film out of the entrance. I was was gobsmacked the first time I saw that.

I use chinese take-away containers . I cut a round hole in the lid (approx 3cm diam). Load fondant into the container, put the lid on, invert container and place over the feeder hole in the crown board. Put an eke above the CB to support the Kingspan insulation. Then put the roof back on, (WBC hives). Easy to see when the bees have taken most of it and the fondant doesnt "flow all over the frames".

 

[pargyle]

I use chinese take-away containers . I cut a round hole in the lid (approx 3cm diam). Load fondant into the container, put the lid on, invert container and place over the feeder hole in the crown board. Put an eke above the CB to support the Kingspan insulation. Then put the roof back on, (WBC hives). Easy to see when the bees have taken most of it and the fondant doesnt "flow all over the frames".

Yes .. that's how I've fed fondant ... works really well. The insulation around and above the container helps as well.

 

[Goran]

Fondant properly made shouldn't drip. For fondants we use the plastic bag for the freezer, cut the stripes ( I don't make them wide, let's say 0,6 to1cm) and turn that side down toward top bar and place directly on top bar.. I do such since I start beekeeping, like the 99% here, I believe. Of course at beginning when I start beekeeping I had to buy fondants - there were some really horrible made ones. But some bad for some good. That forced us to make our own fondants and never look back. Not to mention that we reduce the cost for fondants. For example we calculate that one kg of fondants we make cost 1 euro and we are confident in its quality, but to buy it we have to pay 1,6 euros and to hope it will be decent and not detrimental or so.. In practice we came up to the best is simplest - invert syrup, grinded sugar and in some we add nozevit ( it is claimed organic) as prevention.

 

[sean-a]

Fondant properly made shouldn't drip. For fondants we use the plastic bag for the freezer, cut the stripes ( I don't make them wide, let's say 0,6 to1cm) and turn that side down toward top bar and place directly on top bar.. I do such since I start beekeeping, like the 99% here, I believe. Of course at beginning when I start beekeeping I had to buy fondants - there were some really horrible made ones. But some bad for some good. That forced us to make our own fondants and never look back. Not to mention that we reduce the cost for fondants. For example we calculate that one kg of fondants we make cost 1 euro and we are confident in its quality, but to buy it we have to pay 1,6 euros and to hope it will be decent and not detrimental or so.. In practice we came up to the best is simplest - invert syrup, grinded sugar and in some we add nozevit ( it is claimed organic) as prevention.

How do you make the fondant Goran?

 

[Goran]

How do you make the fondant Goran?

Making invert syrup and mix it with grinded sugar. Invert we make - 4L of water+10kg of sugar+10 grams of citric acid ( this sugar for invert of course doesn't have to be grinded).

 

[ericbeaumont]

a single layer of cling film

Although bees will chew and remove cling film it is also likely to become trapped between abdomen tergites from which neither bee nor man can remove it. When I found bees in this state there was nothing I could do but avoid using cling film again.

 

[Ian123]

Although bees will chew and remove cling film it is also likely to become trapped between abdomen tergites from which neither bee nor man can remove it. When I found bees in this state there was nothing I could do but avoid using cling film again.

If I remember correctly Hive Maker hated cling film as well, I’m sure I remember him commenting on its use. I normally wrap lumps and they’re placed above the feed hole with a corresponding slot cut in the pack, I can’t say I’ve observed any issues to date.

 

[Dodge]

I dislike the climg film method due to plastic polution in the sense small bits get chewed up rather than a firmer IKEA bag that can be recycled at the supermarket.

Q, 1kg of fondant, how does that compare to Honey. I.e. 1 to 1 or 1kg of fondant is the same as a frame of stores? Always wondered.

 

[user 6228]

Although bees will chew and remove cling film it is also likely to become trapped between abdomen tergites from which neither bee nor man can remove it. When I found bees in this state there was nothing I could do but avoid using cling film again.

learnt something new

 

[Goran]

We put fondants in nylon - same as ones bought in the stores, nylon is thicker than ones for fridge. Usually we make them around 1,5kg, sometimes of 2kg. We put them in cardboard boxes ( like the ones for oranges or shallower) and stack them to reduce space needed.

 

[Ian123]

We put fondants in nylon

Now I know what to do with them when I get a ladder.

 

[Darryl]

Cut a 1.25kg bag into quarters. Each quarter fits into a 500ml plastic takeaway container. Put the lid back on and store. To feed take off the lid and invert it over the crownboard hole. Changing packs takes less than one minute in cooler temps.

 

[MeAndMyBees]

Do bees have a preference for one over the other?

I’ve very quickly checked my bees today, just by quickly lifting the top and hefting. All the hives feel pretty heavy but the fondant is running low. I’m wondering if they went for the fondant first over their natural stores. Fondant was added in November and much of the natural stores is probably ivy.

Didn’t want to pull any frames out to check stores down below due to temperature.

The cautious side of me is saying to put more fondant on and not risk it.

 

[MeAndMyBees]

I guess it depends on your Location (how long your Winter is?) What becomes available re early Resources from your Environment too (?)
I have Several Hive types. And each one has its own needs or individual recommendations to Feeding.
Eg Warre Hives are 'under Supered' and the Honey Harvest is ideally taken after the Winter has passed.
(Bees move up into the upper Boxes gradually throughout the Winter.) And once Brood increases, they move the Nest Down into the Newer (lower) Added Comb Frames !
My jumbo Deep Langstroth Frame Horizontal Hive does things differently ! They move gradually up the Frames and Retract into a more tighter Cluster in, the Brood Area, (nearer) the Entrance. Here we add lots of Dry Sugar about x2 Inches Deep over a fine Plastic Mesh, with a tiny cut Flap (open up for Rapid Round Feeder use) : latter in the Spring ! Found fine Mesh works better than Newsprint ! And aids Hive Inspections via a 'quick peek' to see the "Bees" without them flying up all over the place and getting 'cold,'
My Poly Hives (Nats & Langs) have Raised Ecks added. Again Mesh with a Flap, applied over the Frames. With initially a Deep Layer of White Sugar. Then Fondant or / Hive Alive (Nutri-Feed) Fondant once Brood levels ramp up ! And a Smaller Rapid Round Feeder use too, if needed.
Any White Sugar that 'hardens' up into almost solid White Sugar (block) or Slabs, can be lifted up, collected in a Bucket. Hot Water add, only warm enough to turn Sugar into 1:1 Syrup and feed back to the Colonies, once Frosts are no longer experienced. Here this can nearly be up to the end of March / early April ! Remember I am in a Hilly, more Northern location than most. . . :Who Post on this Forum !
So factor in: Your Location, Regional Weather Patterns and the length or type of these. Vary to :
Urban / Rural /Costal / Inland. And which part of the UK / EU / US / World your in (!)
And how 'Strong' each Colony you have is. A Poly Nuc might need less, as its smaller and well Insulated ! Over a large old Wooden Brood Box !!! In a Cold Damp location. . .
If anything, add more Feed than needed. If it's White Sugar, it will harden down, be easily removed later. Fondant can get 'gloopy' if added to early, say mid/late Winter. I personally, in my Location (Scottish Borders) would personally add any Fondant Product, from about mid March onwards. Not before. Glee'd this from experience ! But each Beek will have to make their "Own" descision on this.
Finally : I took hardly any Honey of my Hives last Season. 2023 was not a good Spring/Summer re Honey Reserves. So unusually,
I decided to leave my Nats & Lang Hives, to manage them ike the Warres. Aka, take any spare Honey from these Hives this Spring : before Frame Cell availability is needed for Colony ramping up its Brood needs.
So far the Bees seem fine. But Winter has got a long way to go yet.
I also did my Oxalic Acid Vaping Application earlier than normal.
Done over x3 Weeks latter part of November / early December.
[Previously done near Christmas and New Year?] . . .But the Bee Community 'say' doing it at an earlier time aides the Colonies for sure. . . I guess 'Time' will tell.
But all I can say, my Bees are in a better condition, now, than this time last Year (?)
Still a fairly New (returning) Beekeeper. . .
Had Bees over x30yrs ago. But have them back in my life again. But conditions / disease / pests are more prevalent now, than, than, in the late '80's or early 90's !!!
Over to others. . .
How are you and your Bees doing this January 2024 !?!