FIT subsidies for solar panels

[For want of a better word]

Perhaps that is why the windy Millers are put into the sea... and provide the areas for small fish to thrive... until a Chinese tanker runs into them because Al QU and his mob have taken the GPS satellites down! Remember Milford Haven.
More likely than a Tsunami hitting Hinkley Point fission factory

 

[porterswoods]

I am not pro wind, it just suited my circumstances the best. I would have perfered anerobic digestion, but it is not available on small scale.

I agree that the country's needs, or even mine for that matter, are going to be met entirely by wind power. It will not even provide a significant amount to the whole useage. The only way I can see it working is to help even out the peaks and troughs of power useage, i.e when the add break comes on in corrie. we will not need to shovel so much coal into the fire.

But that will only work when the wind blows. I am not pro or anti nuclear either, I would just like the energy I do get from the grid to be clean. Not green but clean.

 

[Nose Ma]

" windmills run on average at about 30% of their rating" - is straight out of the "anti-wind" handbook, and is deeply misleading -

Er, nope it's from the pro-wind "wind energy planning dot com". I would assume, if anything it's a high figure.

Glad we agree on the mix thing - even if we disagree on the efficacy of wind power!

 

[For want of a better word]

We have been looking at wood chip fueled boilers for local school and village hall..

source may be from sustainable coppice or from hedge clearings mowing trimmings or whatever it is called.. waste that is usually burned !

Very William Morris... local solutions for local problems.. then we do not have much left in the way of heavy industry in Cornwall.....

Read a paper about a German pig farmer who run his farm on pigsh*t methane and an old VW engine!

 

[porterswoods]

We have been looking at wood chip fueled boilers for local school and village hall..

source may be from sustainable coppice or from hedge clearings mowing trimmings or whatever it is called.. waste that is usually burned !

Very William Morris... local solutions for local problems.. then we do not have much left in the way of heavy industry in Cornwall.....

Read a paper about a German pig farmer who run his farm on pigsh*t methane and an old VW engine!

We installed a vigas 40kw wood log burner and accumulator some years ago. It heats 2 houses and provides all the hot water we need. We mainly burn waste wood, actually thats all we burn.

The waste comes from broken pallets and waste from a friends furniture factory. Waste that would cost him to dispose of in landfill. So it's a win win situation.

All it costs to run is the deprciation of the machine and the maintenance. The system cost around £6500 and the maintainence is about £100 per year in parts. I would look at replacing it after 10 years, so about £750 a year.

We were using about 9000 litres of oil a year before we switched, at 60p a litre was £5400 per year. That was one of the best investments I have made.

I also wanted to run my farm on chicken and cattle manure. The anerobic digestion plants to do it are not on a small enough scale yet.

 

[Brosville]

I'm not quibbling that turbines run at "30%" of their capacity, but the manner in which the figure was used - my Ferrari analogy was pretty accurate - a turbine tends to give 30% of it's maximum capacity ('cos the wind don't blow all the time and at the optimum speeds for it), but that in no way hints that is deficient in any way -"figures" can be used in all sorts of ways - it is equally true to point out that turbines capture around 50% of the energy in the wind, coal power stations are around 25% efficient.........

Wind power is an immensely complex subject, the following link leads to an excellent resource to find out more about it - http://wiki.windpower.org/index.php/Main_Page#Welcome_to_the_Guided_Tour_Wiki

 

[Nose Ma]

Re: wood burners

We're thinking of going this route, as we have access to cheap wood like Porterswoods. The issue is we live in a smokeless zone - so do we have to get a certain type of burner?

I ask because the bloke next door seems to just have an open fire, so are the zones ignored now?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

" it's a a bit like saying "My Ferrari is capable of 220 mph, but because I won't be driving it all the time, and when I do it will be at 70mph or under for most of the time, therefore it's rubbish!...."

You have a point - but if I jump into my Ferrari to quickly nip down to the shops before they close as I've just realised we're clean out of bean sprout and tofu surprise and we have guests that evening, turn the key in the ignition and nothing happens - then IMHO my Ferrari is sh!t.
It doesn't always blow somewhere and even when it does it's not always blowing at the right speed

 

[Brosville]

Several woodburners have been passed for use in smokeless zones - there's a full list on this site - http://smokecontrol.defra.gov.uk/appliances.php

 

[Nose Ma]

I'm not quibbling that turbines run at "30%" of their capacity, but the manner in which the figure was used - my Ferrari analogy was pretty accurate - a turbine tends to give 30% of it's maximum capacity ('cos the wind don't blow all the time and at the optimum speeds for it), but that in no way hints that is deficient in any way -"figures" can be used in all sorts of ways - it is equally true to point out that turbines capture around 50% of the energy in the wind, coal power stations are around 25% efficient.........

Wind power is an immensely complex subject, and suggest that the following link leads to an excellent excellent resource to find out more about it - http://wiki.windpower.org/index.php/Main_Page#Welcome_to_the_Guided_Tour_Wiki

I think "power" is an immensely complex subject! I'll read the website, but it could take some time.

With your Ferrari, if you had to outrun a tidal wave on a racetrack (okay, that's unlikely) you could hit the accelerator and do just that. At your command it can do the 220mph, or whatever.

Coal, gas, nuclear, can also do that. It's not instant, but it is controllable. You could take Drax up to its maximum output any time you wished, to be certain of that with wind power, you'd need a lot of redundant windmills.

 

[Nose Ma]

...and another thing...

Can I just point out that I've enjoyed this debate, it's made me do some reading and some thinking. I think we have also been jolly civilised too, and played the ball not the player. Well done everyone!

 

[porterswoods]

...and another thing...

Can I just point out that I've enjoyed this debate, it's made me do some reading and some thinking. I think we have also been jolly civilised too, and played the ball not the player. Well done everyone!

I too have enjoyed it. It is nice to know people can debate without getting personal.

I'm not sure about smokeless zones as i'm not in one. However there are gasifaction boilers suitable for smokeless zones as Brosville has already said. On the open fire front, i know you can buy smokeless coal for burning in smokeless zones.

I think the Vigas is approved, i don't know how as it beltches out smoke.

It is a lot of thinking to switch over, but one you have done it you won't look back.

If there was a 50kw anerobic digester on the market I would install that, precisely because i can have power on demand. As there isn't the only next viable option for me is wind, and to draw from the grid when wind isn't generating.

 

[For want of a better word]

I found a plethora of papers.. peer reviewed.. through BIDS ( University of Bath Information Directory Service ???) website a few years back on biomass and various digesters.. even a human waste to gas unit design for ocean going yachts, where power really is a problem!

Not beyond the average DIY enthusiast to build one... over to Hedgerow for that !

 

[porterswoods]

I found a plethora of papers.. peer reviewed.. through BIDS ( University of Bath Information Directory Service ???) website a few years back on biomass and various digesters.. even a human waste to gas unit design for ocean going yachts, where power really is a problem!

Not beyond the average DIY enthusiast to build one... over to Hedgerow for that !

the problem with that is enthusiast and diy!

 

[JamezF]

I am not pro wind, it just suited my circumstances the best. I would have perfered anerobic digestion, but it is not available on small scale.

As it happens, a friend of mine who runs an environmental management company is in the process of building a small-scale combined AD/generator unit. It's intended for sale, but two prototypes will be sited on his smallholding. No idea what the intended power output is, but the plan is to have the digester and generator in a standard 20ft shipping container.

James

 

[JamezF]

I found a plethora of papers.. peer reviewed.. through BIDS ( University of Bath Information Directory Service ???) website a few years back on biomass and various digesters.. even a human waste to gas unit design for ocean going yachts, where power really is a problem!

Not beyond the average DIY enthusiast to build one... over to Hedgerow for that !

I'm working on one myself

Currently have a disused 2500l oil tank for the digestion unit and a diesel-powered generator. The plan is to bleed methane into the air intake to fuel it. Perhaps not as efficient as a gas engine, but simpler for DIY. I'll still need to burn about 10% oil, but that could come from biodiesel. Just need to get everything together and do all the plumbing...

James

 

[porterswoods]

As it happens, a friend of mine who runs an environmental management company is in the process of building a small-scale combined AD/generator unit. It's intended for sale, but two prototypes will be sited on his smallholding. No idea what the intended power output is, but the plan is to have the digester and generator in a standard 20ft shipping container.

James

Muckbuster is aready on the market, but seems a bit expensive. I have 300 tonnes of layers manure as well as 200t of cattle manure i could use. I would be intrested in a small unit that could turn this into electricity.

 

[mbc]

Great thread !
Now if you really want to efficiently use a mix of sources on a small level what I'd like to do is have a bio digestion plant next door to a renewable source of electricity ( wind or hydro ) to be able to compress the methane to store it conveniently for future use ( probably best used as motor fuel ). Bio digestion is at its best when digesting human food waste so I think it will only come into its own alongside community initiatives to collect waste food.

A few thoughts :

Offshore windfarms are more popular ( but more expensive ) than land based windfarms due to not cutting access roads through environmentally sensitive uplands and causing an eyesore ( in some peoples eyes ! )
Hydro and tidal have biodiversity issues ( environmentalists and salmon fishermen quake with fear at the thought of even more hydro's on our rivers )
PV too good to be true ? how easily replaceable are the materials used in manufacture ?
Coal is cheap and plentiful but dirty ( but we could go down the co2 capturing route )
Gas and oil are easy but expensive and finite ( more so than coal )
Nuclear doesnt sell itself to the public for some reason. Despite the stats showing how safe it is, how many people want to live near Chernobyl ? Very impressed with Fukushima mind, throw tsunami's and earthquakes at it and it nearly stays in one piece with very few casualties.
Fission - no ones yet got close to producing a workable reactor yet, I believe the best bet is a liquid thorium reactor but we havent worked out how to deal with highly corrosive juice in a reactor yet.

My money is on us continuing to use coal, gas and nuclear for baseload leccie and the rest just topping up ( unless LTR becomes a reality ), but we should all learn to use less of the stuff really.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

even a human waste to gas unit design for ocean going yachts, where power really is a problem!

Not beyond the average DIY enthusiast to build one... over to Hedgerow for that !

Now you're talking, get some government funding for that - they already supply us with more than enough bulls**t to power the whole of Europe

 

[For want of a better word]

From memory the digester took its gas supply from the bilges and was pre-compressed utilising a Stirling engine / pump and then into a modified generator.. novel idea!

could produce enough energy for a reverse osmosis pump and run navigation electronics