Feeding back their own honey

[beemunn]

Hello everyone, new here. Does anyone know if you can get bees to migrate their own honey/necter from their old hive into their new transition hive from within it? Thus preventing a free for all feeding frenzy by all and sundry.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I don’t quite understand why there might be a feeding frenzy
Put the honey underneath the brood and close down the entrance to a few be spaces
It would be a good idea to put the inspection tray in too

Why can’t you just move the frames from one box to the other?

 

[ericbeaumont]

feeding frenzy by all and sundry

Smell or drips of honey will attract robbers during a dearth or when wasps are plentiful, but during a flow it should be safe.

from their old hive into their new transition hive from within it

Are you changing hive format? More detail would help.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Are you changing hive format? More detail would help.

Ah… maybe
https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/ply-wood-and-beehive-constrution.55000/

 

[beemunn]

Smell or drips of honey will attract robbers during a dearth or when wasps are plentiful, but during a flow it should be safe.


Are you changing hive format? More detail would help.

yes, changing from a national nuc into a layens 20 frame longhive. I've done the brood hatch transition sicessfully but they've left the capped honey and nectar behind and I wanted them to have it all rather than give it to the bee population in general.

I thought if I openned the cappings and placed the national frames haphazardly in the end of the long hive they might clean them out?

 

[user 819]

Under what reasons is one placing said bees in to another hive ?
The answer then may give better replies in how to reuse /move the stores.

 

[user 819]

yes, changing from a national nuc into a layens 20 frame longhive. I've done the brood hatch transition sicessfully but they've left the capped honey and nectar behind and I wanted them to have it all rather than give it to the bee population in general.

I thought if I openned the cappings and placed the national frames haphazardly in the end of the long hive they might clean them out?

Probably best to extract it all and then feed it back .
Bees have little or no reason to move honey horizontally unless the honey/frames are well outside of the brood area and separated by a dimmy board/ wall with a small entrance.

 

[beemunn]

Under what reasons is one placing said bees in to another hive ?
The answer then may give better replies in how to reuse /move the stores.

I am changing from a national nuc into a layens 20 frame longhive. I've done the brood hatch transition sicessfully but they've left the capped honey and nectar behind and I wanted them to have it all rather than give it to the bee population in general.

I thought if I openned the cappings and placed the national frames haphazardly in the end of the long hive they might clean them out?

 

[user 819]

I answered in # 7.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I thought if I openned the cappings and placed the national frames haphazardly in the end of the long hive they might clean them out?

Then extract them and feed back

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

or just extract and keep for yourself.
It's the reason for keeping bees.

 

[drex]

Not mine

 

[pargyle]

I am changing from a national nuc into a layens 20 frame longhive. I've done the brood hatch transition sicessfully but they've left the capped honey and nectar behind and I wanted them to have it all rather than give it to the bee population in general.

I thought if I openned the cappings and placed the national frames haphazardly in the end of the long hive they might clean them out?

If you don't have an extractor that will take the frames .. just cut the honeycomb out and crush and strain the the honey out of it. If you have a Layens long hive then you will need a frame feeder at some point so best invest now before you need to feed them at the end of the season. They will take it from a frame feeder and either store or use it. They may not take it if there is a flow on so, if necessary, just store it in a container until you need to feed them up for winter and give it to them at that point.

Whatever you do .. DO NOT .. leave the frames out for 'the general bee population' to clean out.

 

[ericbeaumont]

if I openned the cappings and placed the national frames haphazardly in the end of the long hive they might clean them out?

Not if there is any sort of flow in progress; if there is, bees will do the opposite and add to the current stash. To get bees to do what you want you must think like a bee, and recognise colony behaviour during seasonal expansion and contraction.

When the colony contracts at the end of summer any stores perceived to be outside the nest will be removed and taken indoors, and the beekeeper has the choice to establish that perimeter - commonly a crownboard (in a vertical hive) with one or two beespace holes; a vertical division board in a horizontal hive works on the same principle.

If you try this trick now, when the colony is weeks away from contracting, bees will take fresh nectar through the holes and add to the stores outside. Wait until the flows have ended, after the ivy, and then put outside the nest perimeter whatever you want taken in.

DO NOT .. leave the frames out for 'the general bee population' to clean out.

Until then, extract, or store the combs in a beetight container; if you feed back as I think you suggest, mad robbing by other colonies will begin (do you really have none?) which you will be unable to stop, and passing bees will join in and may bring disease.

 

[warsaw_hive]

I've done the brood hatch transition sicessfully

Could you describe that? My understanding is you could just mount national/langstroth frames at 90 degrees in a layens frame. Fill in any voids with wood, or let the bees fill the rest of the layens frame up with comb if there is a good flow on.

If you want completely new comb then extracting/crushing and straining is probably the way to go. However, I'd try and make use of the presumably straight nuc comb you have. Cut it out of its national frame and trim it so if fits across the layens frame and wedge it in place with an extra bar of wood. For extra security I use short lengths of bamboo BBQ skewer which fit into a 3mm hole in the frame and can be pressed into the comb. The bees will repair the sides/top attachments so it holds firm. You can then remove the extra bar of wood (or just leave it if that potentially causes damage).

You've presumably read Cours complet d'apiculture (rebranded Keeping bees in horizontal hives), but Layens also wrote a number of other short books. You can find the text at warsaw-hive.com/layens (shameless plug).

 

[fian]

The interior measurements for Lansgtroth/Layens compatibility are 480mm-350mm, allowing you to then have 13 Lansgtroth frames or 9 Lansgtroth frames. For British national squares, the measurement is changed from 480mm to 400mm, dropping from 13 to 11 frames layens.
You can reduce the gap of a national on one of the sides to hang pictures layens, top bar around 360/370 mm.

 

[beemunn]

I don’t quite understand why there might be a feeding frenzy
Put the honey underneath the brood and close down the entrance to a few be spaces
It would be a good idea to put the inspection tray in too

Why can’t you just move the frames from one box to the other

In placing the frames out and away from the hive, I've seen the mass of bees it can attract, which I'm trying to avoid for the neighbours sake. I was curious to know, if I left the frames in their new formatted hive, they might quietly clear all the honey and nectar for themselves, relocating it into their new comb.

 

[beemunn]

In placing the frames out and away from the hive, I've seen the mass of bees it can attract, which I'm trying to avoid for the neighbours sake. I was curious to know, if I left the frames in their new formatted hive, they might quietly clear all the honey and nectar for themselves, relocating it into their new comb.

I hasten to add that I'd score the capped comb and lay the frames upsiad down. They are a different format/size.

 

[beemunn]

Then extract them and feed back

I have no centrifuge extractor and I want to return the frames/comb to the person who gave me the nuc.

 

[fian]

I have no centrifuge extractor and I want to return the frames/comb to the person who gave me the nuc.

So, 2 options:
A. Arrange a national box above your long hive and in it the frames. Wait until the bees decide to move the honey to the vicinity of the brood nest.
B. Deliver the frames with honey and negotiate some compensation such as the delivery of any jar of honey you have.