Feeding back their own honey

[Gilberdyke John]

I have no centrifuge extractor and I want to return the frames/comb to the person who gave me the nuc.

Just how much honey is involved in this tale of bewilderment and woe? It might be appropriate to just give it to the nuc donor if they have an extractor.

 

[beemunn]

Not if there is any sort of flow in progress; if there is, bees will do the opposite and add to the current stash. To get bees to do what you want you must think like a bee, and recognise colony behaviour during seasonal expansion and contraction.

When the colony contracts at the end of summer any stores perceived to be outside the nest will be removed and taken indoors, and the beekeeper has the choice to establish that perimeter - commonly a crownboard (in a vertical hive) with one or two beespace holes; a vertical division board in a horizontal hive works on the same principle.

If you try this trick now, when the colony is weeks away from contracting, bees will take fresh nectar through the holes and add to the stores outside. Wait until the flows have ended, after the ivy, and then put outside the nest perimeter whatever you want taken in.


Until then, extract, or store the combs in a beetight container; if you feed back as I think you suggest, mad robbing by other colonies will begin (do you really have none?) which you will be unable to stop, and passing bees will join in and may bring disease.

Thank you for that Eric, most helpfull to add to my learning curve, partidularly the desese element, I had overlooked that.

 

[beemunn]

Just how much honey is involved in this tale of bewilderment and woe? It might be appropriate to just give it to the nuc donor if they have an extractor.

Maybe you're right. I'm probably being over caring of all the hard work my poor little ladies have gone to to establish themseves with this stash.

 

[beemunn]

Could you describe that? My understanding is you could just mount national/langstroth frames at 90 degrees in a layens frame. Fill in any voids with wood, or let the bees fill the rest of the layens frame up with comb if there is a good flow on.

If you want completely new comb then extracting/crushing and straining is probably the way to go. However, I'd try and make use of the presumably straight nuc comb you have. Cut it out of its national frame and trim it so if fits across the layens frame and wedge it in place with an extra bar of wood. For extra security I use short lengths of bamboo BBQ skewer which fit into a 3mm hole in the frame and can be pressed into the comb. The bees will repair the sides/top attachments so it holds firm. You can then remove the extra bar of wood (or just leave it if that potentially causes damage).

You've presumably read Cours complet d'apiculture (rebranded Keeping bees in horizontal hives), but Layens also wrote a number of other short books. You can find the text at warsaw-hive.com/layens (shameless plug).

 

[beemunn]

That's exactly what I did, sectioned off a 90 degree hanging space for the natiomnaal frames, filling the open side area with ply and the under and side voids with sawdust and woodland waste (a la eco hive) which all worked well, except the damness of frass warped the Dr Sheraskin hive inner skin. I included a queen excluder in case she was tempted to return to her roots and contimue laying in those nuc frames.

My original thought was to cut and implant, but I was being chicken and consequently got over creative. I think your way is the way I'll go, except one frame has zigzag wires in it frustratingly. I've seen people use elastic bands, but I wince when they sugest the bees knaw them off!

I have five books on the go, Layens', Sheraskin's and a couple of Phill Chandler's, so I'm up to my ears with wonderful info, as well as your helpful advice now, for which my sinceer thanks.

 

[beemunn]

Could you describe that? My understanding is you could just mount national/langstroth frames at 90 degrees in a layens frame. Fill in any voids with wood, or let the bees fill the rest of the layens frame up with comb if there is a good flow on.

If you want completely new comb then extracting/crushing and straining is probably the way to go. However, I'd try and make use of the presumably straight nuc comb you have. Cut it out of its national frame and trim it so if fits across the layens frame and wedge it in place with an extra bar of wood. For extra security I use short lengths of bamboo BBQ skewer which fit into a 3mm hole in the frame and can be pressed into the comb. The bees will repair the sides/top attachments so it holds firm. You can then remove the extra bar of wood (or just leave it if that potentially causes damage).

You've presumably read Cours complet d'apiculture (rebranded Keeping bees in horizontal hives), but Layens also wrote a number of other short books. You can find the text at warsaw-hive.com/layens (shameless plug).

I've just twigged what you meant by hanging a nationl/langstroth frame into a layens frame. How simple is that. Silly me! The hatching and transition happend so fast and with the queen excluder the open spaces wouldn't have present a problem.

 

[warsaw_hive]

That's exactly what I did, sectioned off a 90 degree hanging space for the natiomnaal frames, filling the open side area with ply and the under and side voids with sawdust and woodland waste (a la eco hive) which all worked well, except the damness of frass warped the Dr Sheraskin hive inner skin. I included a queen excluder in case she was tempted to return to her roots and contimue laying in those nuc frames.

My original thought was to cut and implant, but I was being chicken and consequently got over creative. I think your way is the way I'll go, except one frame has zigzag wires in it frustratingly. I've seen people use elastic bands, but I wince when they sugest the bees knaw them off!

I have five books on the go, Layens', Sheraskin's and a couple of Phill Chandler's, so I'm up to my ears with wonderful info, as well as your helpful advice now, for which my sinceer thanks.

I think you did well to change the direction of combs. Are you using starter strips or full foundation? It gives me some hope as I've started a custom hive that is going to have it's super frames at a right angle to its brood frames. At the moment I've bodged it so they are in the same orientation, but now I want to turn them around although it seems risky without full foundation. I think in Spain they super 12 frame layens hives like this? I think @fian has previously said this?

It's a shame about your plywood. Damp is a something I have yet to fully master. My approach now is to go for breathable materials as when I painted some boxes with ordinary Dulux paint they developed bad rot within a couple of years. Phil's eco floor seems like a nice idea, but I think needs a mesh floor underneath for drainage. It's something I probably should try as the solid wooden floors on my Warrés can get very wet (and are now rotting).

I think it is also important to match the hive volume to the colony. Putting a small swarm in a large box seems to generate more moisture as presumably it doesn't have the heat to dry things out. In the early editions of his books Layens used to use a foldable partition to make his hives smaller. He dropped this after some temperature experiments by Bonnier. Derek Mitchel might now question the validity of those experiments.

I use beekeeping books to send me to sleep. I've read lots of them, but can't remember much from them!

I'm glad you stuck with the Layens hive.