Fast solution to crystallized honey

[BeeBeeKa]

I`ve got the 28W 28X53CM Adjustable Temperature Reptile Heating Pet Mat today, and assembled the simple system described in my post #10 above, without Thermostat yet. There were 2 empty poly Langsthroth BB`s been used. The temperature inside the system has reached 44`C in about 4 hours of operation on a full power (28W) in the cold room with an ambient temperature of 14`C. I consider this result as promising

 

[Tom Bick]

Great keep us informed how it works.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Great keep us informed how it works.

Yes please.

It looks much more accurate than using a 40W lightbulb!

 

[itma]

…
It looks much more accurate than using a 40W lightbulb!

The heating element has little to do with accuracy.

The STC 1000 is a decently cheap digital thermostat. But its just a 'bang-bang' (technical term, really!) thermostat. It has no way of accounting for the delay between a "wave of heat" leaving the heater and arriving at the sensor.
One simple means of reducing that delay (and thus minimising the temperature deviation from target) is to have a fan shifting the air faster. And the fan also fulfils a second function, of better equalising the heat throughout the chamber - otherwise the temperature above the probe will end up hotter than target, and it will be colder than target below the probe.
While temperature variation transients within the chamber don't matter too much for a bucket of honey, they matter a great deal - and air circulation becomes much more difficult - if one was trying to warm frames of honey. Can the heat get up to the sensor fast enough to stop the stuff nearer the heat source from overheating?
And in that regard the "waterproofing" of the heating elements and their electrical connections starts to matter more (and lightbulbs would be less appropriate). One has to foresee ALL the potential consequences of a frame "meltdown" - not just the mess.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Though It`s all a matter of an experiment, I have a hope that due to the very slow heat emission the Pet Mat provides, the system gets enough time for a thorough mixing of different thermal air layers within a few brood boxes by natural means of convection…It`s really time consuming process. And the more honey been set inside, the more time will be taken. Setting a fan could be an option, but I would still prefer to keep the system as simple as possible
The thermostat is still on it`s way from China , and I have no much honey to experiment with this winter, but I`ll take it over with something else. That`s the plan
Chears

 

[BeeBeeKa]

Here we go again, as promised
I`ve finally got a thermostat yesterday. It`s taken 20 days to get it from Hong Kong by the Economy Int'l Postage. But no complains: remember – we are very patient
So… The key elements of the system look like this if assembled:

Wiring of thermostat is simple… for anybody, who is able to change bulbs in their house on their own

All honey that`s been left for me this winter ( 2 kg) goes inside the system you`ll see on further pictures.
Probably there is no need to explain much, as everything is on them. But do not hesitate to ask if the need arise.

The temperature inside the system has reached 25`C after 3.5 hours of operation. It`s hard to believe that 2kg of honey can make such a difference in comparison with an empty system ... I`m not in hurry anyway
Let` see what happens tomorow... oh.. today, I mean
P.S. The thermostate can take a load up to 1000W, so it`s possible even to connect a regulare fun heater to it(not on full power of course)... But I would not recommend to use it on a sistem above as it can melt some parts before the thermostat reacts.

 

[itma]

... Wiring of thermostat is simple… for anybody, who is able to change bulbs in their house on their own

IMPORTANT
There are different versions of the STC-1000 Thermostat.
Which have different connector arrangements.
READERS MUST NOT SIMPLY COPY THIS WIRING WITHOUT CAREFUL CHECKING.

 

[itma]

All honey that`s been left for me this winter ( 2 kg) goes inside the system you`ll see on further pictures.
Probably there is no need to explain much, as everything is on them. But do not hesitate to ask if the need arise.

Some wally has painted INSIDE this beehive. Oh well, it can be kept as a warming cabinet, and NOT used for keeping bees and honey in …

Don't paint inside hives. Even plastic ones.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

IMPORTANT There are different versions of the STC-1000 Thermostat.

Surely one should follow an exact instruction of producer of thermostat. I just gave an example how the wiring could be done (with the version indicated in my post #10 blatantly).

Some wally has painted INSIDE this beehive. Oh well, it can be kept as a warming cabinet, and NOT used for keeping bees and honey in … Don't paint inside hives. Even plastic ones.

Dear friend. I`m not sure what kind of wasp has stung you this morning , but could you make an effort to explain more specifically why do you mind a paint inside a hive… Taking in account you could not have a clue about paint I used.
Painting both sides means less UV goes through the walls bothering the bees, and makes it easy to clean off a mould and any sort of a dirt if the need arise.
If it`s all about paint odor, than, first of all, some paints (some water based i.e.) almost do not have it, while those that do have odor…Well… There is no substance in the world that evaporates all the time It`s a good practice to avoid odor paints though.
Back to my warming cabinet … It works…slowly, but surely It`s taken more than half a day in order to get 38`C inside, but then it keeps the temperature well within a set range of 37-38`C. There is always an option though to use a multiple plugs adaptor for more Pet Mats to be connected to the system, in order to speed up the heating.
The comb I used was the Ivy honey, as hard as a stone. It`s very soft now (like a warm set honey), but crystals are not dissolved yet completely. I`ll give it a go for another day.
Chears everybody

 

[clv101]

A few years ago I made a food dehydrator, a wooden frame, card sides, 4 x 60W bulbs in the bottom, 2 x 120mm 12v fans and 10 x wire cooling racks. Great for drying fruit.

I've recently repurposed it as a honey warming cabinet replacing the card sides with polystyrene sheet I had spare and removing the fans. With 240W, insulation and no fans, it rapidly exceeded the 70C limit of my digital thermometer. With just one bulb it maintains a happy ~40C. Works a treat.

 

[BeeBeeKa]

With just one bulb it maintains a happy ~40C. Works a treat.

Great, clv101, thanks. It certainly gives me a clue re. what amount of watts to be used.
The problem with a bulb is… you can`t use it in a hive, while a pet mat could be used for a spring brooding stimulation

 

[BeeBeeKa]

WARNING!
My Pet Mat has experienced smoldering after 3.5 days of continuous work. I do not know an exact reason why it`s happened. I did not break the manufacturer instructions. The whole system was transferred into my bedroom yesterday as the higher ambient temperature in it helped to maintain a stable condition within the system without spending much energy. Besides it gave me more time to keep an eye on it. It`s a good luck that I`ve being home today at the moment when I felt a strange synthetic smell… I`ve instantly checked my “warming cabinet” and that`s what I found inside:

And that`s what happened inside a connector :

Whether was it due to a bad contact or due to a broken silver color strip you see on the picture, I could pay a very high price for this fault of the Chinese manufacturer. China has done a great work in their production industry, but quality of some of their products is still a matter of a serious concern.
The Chinese thermostat worked very well though… so far.
I could not get a “runny honey” at 37-38`C, so I raised temperature to 41`C yesterday . It looks like it helped a bit( or it`s just the time that played bigger role in it), but crystals have not dissolved yet completely. Some parts of a comb look like “runny honey”, while some still look like a set honey. I`m not sure that the following pictures could give you a blatant image of what happened with the honey, but taking in account the described incident I won`t be able to continue the experiment, thus these are my last honey pictures in this thread

I still have a feeling that if I raised temperature a bit more (+2 - 3`C), or gave it a bit more time, I could get my “runny honey” even out of such a terribly crystallized honey like my Ivy honey. But a serious work needs to be done to make sure that a “warming cabinet” won`t leave a heap of a charcoal on the place where it was set.
BE VERY CAREFULL WITH YOUR APPLIANCES, AND TAKE CARE.

 

[rayz_x]

How would one of these tubular heaters work? 60w should be reasonable? Could it be connected to the same thermostat? Would it need to be separated from the possibility of any moisture inside the cabinet?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/winterwarm-75771501-tubular-wall-hung-heater-60w/80336

Ray

 

[BeeBeeKa]

How would one of these tubular heaters work? 60w should be reasonable? Could it be connected to the same thermostat? Would it need to be separated from the possibility of any moisture inside the cabinet?
http://www.screwfix.com/p/winterwarm-75771501-tubular-wall-hung-heater-60w/80336
Ray

It looks like a good alternative to the pet mat, Ray Just a bit more pricy… but definitely safer.
I do not know much about this product, but googling a bit “tubular wall heater” I came across some more info about this sort of a product with plenty of good reviews on it:
http://www.clifford-james.co.uk/buy.cfm/electrical/winterwarm-tubular-wall-heater/68/yes/67915
Taking a fact that it`s set outside of a building ( on the picture advertisement), and recommended for a bathroom, I presume it`s damp resistant.
Not sure that “Overheat safety cut-out” refers to thermostat, but it could be easily connected to my system via plug anyway

 

[itma]

How would one of these tubular heaters work? 60w should be reasonable? Could it be connected to the same thermostat? Would it need to be separated from the possibility of any moisture inside the cabinet?

http://www.screwfix.com/p/winterwarm-75771501-tubular-wall-hung-heater-60w/80336

Ray

1/ Such "greenhouse" type tubular heaters are the most commonly recommended heating elements for home-made warming cabinets. JBM has posted photos of his ex-fridge with one mounted at the top and one at the bottom (so he has 120 watts total). Generally, the longer the tube the more heating power.
HOWEVER you may well have an internal thermostat to bypass or adjust to enable you to reach suitable temperatures. (If you are using your controller, the 'dumber' your heating element the better.) A greenhouse heater shouldn't get anywhere near 40C, let alone be too hot to touch … but (your third question) they are generally splash-proof, so its just your connections and wiring that you need to worry about.

2/ The limitation of the STC 1000 controller is the amount of power (current actually) that it can switch. Some versions have 5 amp relays, (like the one discussed on this thread, so about 1100 watts at 220v) while some claim 10 amp relays (therefore handling a maximum 2200 watt load).
I can only presume (don't know for sure) that the different terminal layout may be associated with the differently-rated relays.
I am NOT using mu STC 1000 with my Mk 1 Lidl Jam Maker with its 2.2kw rating …

I have boxed my STC 1000 with socket outputs for attachment of any heater and/or cooler (subject to the power limitation), rather than incorporating it in a single dedicated piece of kit.

If you don't understand ALL of what I've put, pass it over to someone who does.
Mains electricity MUST be treated with serious respect. Don't play or 'experiment'. Otherwise you might be up for a 'Darwin Award' …

 

[theeggman]

1/ Such "greenhouse" type tubular heaters are the most commonly recommended heating elements for home-made warming cabinets. JBM has posted photos of his ex-fridge with one mounted at the top and one at the bottom (so he has 120 watts total). Generally, the longer the tube the more heating power.
HOWEVER you may well have an internal thermostat to bypass or adjust to enable you to reach suitable temperatures. (If you are using your controller, the 'dumber' your heating element the better.) A greenhouse heater shouldn't get anywhere near 40C, let alone be too hot to touch … but (your third question) they are generally splash-proof, so its just your connections and wiring that you need to worry about.

itma is spot on with this.

I have 2x 60w tubes that shut down way below required temp. so beaware when you purchase.

 

[enrico]

How about a greenhouse heated cable. Totally waterproof, no cut outs, meant to work on a thermostat and will wrap around inside the box/fridge giving a more regular heat!
Easy to clean too!

 

[theeggman]

Some heating cables are 'self regulating'.
I used to work for a manufacturer of them, anti-frost. When the cable got cold the 'plastic contracted and completed the circuit, once it warmed and expanded no circuit.

So again be careful when buying!

 

[rayz_x]

Thank you itma and others, very helpful. This is my project for next year - so keep an eye on the Darwin awards for results.

Ray

 

[sbisme]

I have one of these two try along with an ST1000 just need to make the box next.