fact or fiction..

[SussexBea]

Hi, perhaps you could help clarify a few points..

Recently I went with a friend to collect some buckfast queens he'd bought from a reputable breeder, who used to work for the bee unit and owns a nationally recognised bee equipment supplier. A couple looked like buckfast but the others were darker. When asked, the seller said "they are raised from the same queen but were put in different cell builder nucs and so could be different colours." All I can think is that somehow a different royal jelly affects colour? Doesn't seem right to me..

Secondly, back in the day when I first learnt about bees on a course, run by a bee inspector, I was told that a queen will mate with 15 or so drones and that the sperm would be used from one drone, and then another and so on. ie, brood would go through stages of colouring/traits etc. Dominant and recessive genes not withstanding.. It wasn't suggested that it was stored separately just that it kind of backed up in order. I distinctly remember being told this but they mix together in the spermatheca don't they? Was the bee inspector getting at something else?

Finally (and thanks for reading this far!!) if you grafted from a buckfast queen but the virgins mated naturally in an urban area with any tom, dick or harry drone can the the newly mated queen be advertised as a buckfast?

thanks!

 

[B+.]

I was told that a queen will mate with 15 or so drones and that the sperm would be used from one drone, and then another and so on.

If you look at the way semen is introduced and stored in the spermatheca, you will see that it can't possibly be used sequentially. The drone bypasses the valvefold and introduces his semen into the median oviduct which are attached to the two lateral oviducts. These expand to accommodate the volume of semen during mating then relax, forcing the semen back towards the valvefold. The pressure created forces semen up into the spermatheca where it is mixed further over the remainder of the queens life. There is no mechanism for it to be stored or used sequentially. In fact, if you have ever dissected a queen and removed the tissue that surrounds the spermatheca, you will see a marbled mass in the spematheca of mated queens. Queens that have not mated successfully have a clear spermatheca.

 

[SussexBea]

Hi, yes I've taken out spermathecas to look at recently. Its just something that's always stuck with me as something I was taught but it didn't match with the science I've learnt this year. thanks for clarifying.

 

[Thymallus]

Hi, perhaps you could help clarify a few points..

Recently I went with a friend to collect some buckfast queens he'd bought from a reputable breeder, who used to work for the bee unit and owns a nationally recognised bee equipment supplier. A couple looked like buckfast but the others were darker.

It can depend on which drones sperm was used to fertilize the eggs and which half of her DNA was used. Nothing unusual and I have had an occasional very dark colored F1 from isolated mated queens! Just check they behave as Buckfast.
If these are from who I think they are from they will be F1's and not isolated matings. Although with Sandhutton on his doorstep Buckfast drones tend to dominate the local area.
You traveled a long way from Sussex

 

[SussexBea]

but it can't have anything to do with them being raised in a different cell builder would it? that's what I wanted to clarify because thats the reason he gave. And it wasn't just me thought it an odd answer. Otherwise I've found him good.

 

[B+.]

but it can't have anything to do with them being raised in a different cell builder would it?

No.
The purpose of the cell builder is to feed and nurture the larvae. They supply wax and keep it warm.

 

[RogueDrone]

The mothers may have been raised in different cell builders / aviaries and then mated with drones from these different zones. Hence the difference in the daughter and the mothers possibly only distant relatives. I would go back to your supplier and seek further clarification from them. Avoid speculation on here.

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