Experimental, easy, Warre-style setup

[user 20297]

I like making beehive bits from PIR board. I've made many sleeves (winter "cosies") from the stuff and decided to adapt my technique to make something of Warre dimensions.
It happens that poly, mini-plus boxes have an external dimension of 300mm, which is exactly the specification for the internal of a Warre box. Conveniently, the easily transported, 450 x 1200mm building sheets of PIR can be cut lengthways to make pieces with a width of 225mm (less in practice); this is just slightly more than the specified height of a Warre box. By cutting four lengths of these pieces to a length of 350mm, I've been able to butt them in a square around a mini-plus, bonding the ends with PU sealant, and then clamping them together with a ratchet-strap overnight. When they're secure, I'll tape all of the cut edges, hack out rebates for the top-bars, and use some spare body-filler to tidy and strengthen these rebates.
The floor will be easily made from a spare piece of 25mm PIR, with the entrance made in a similar way to the top-bar rebates.
I'll make a simple, deep, flat roof, and omit the "all important" quilt, because I don't want top ventilation, even if it is meant to be semi-permeable and controllable by the bees; I think they would block it with propolis in any case. All parts will be painted externally with roofseal.
I got started in such a hurry that I have no photos, but I will revisit everything in a few days and show it completed with its component parts.
In order to populate it, I have a mini-plus nuc that I plan to simply insert, complete, into the top of the two Warre boxes, and if nothing else, this will keep them warm for winter. At best, I hope they will start building downwards. I expect "fun" when separating these relatively fragile boxes, but they will be light to lift.
The whole project has taken 90 minutes using a saw, a tape measure, a straight edge and a sealant gun, with another hour and a half left for completion; in the current financial climate, at £15 for a hive, it's certainly living up to its name, "The Peoples' Hive"

 

[user 20297]

I've completed my (nothing like a ) Warre hive. It's ended up completely losing one of the major principles of The Abbe's design in being completely sealed at the top.
We have the floor; 25mm PIR with a reasonably authentic, notched entrance. You can see that this piece has has previous use with bees.



I've made top-bars from 25 x 10mm stripwood and placed them at 36mm centres. It's easy to make a rebate in the PIR with a craft knife and this is sealed using aluminium tape.



For the present, the upper box is not fitted with top-bars, but a Mini-Plus box is inserted and the frames from a thriving nuc will be added to it. The bees will extend down from the bottom of the frames and any additional frames will be secured to a top-bar of the lower box.

View attachment DSC_7821.JPG

I've made a crownboard from 25mm PIR and an additional piece of 20mm PIR ensures that the roof is better insulated than the walls.







I've made a deep cover out of a very cheap and slightly too thin version of Correx that is used as a floor protector during DIY or building operations in houses. This is sufficiently deep that it covers the gap between the boxes and completely protects the winter setup from rain and wind.



It's imperfect and experimental and I am aware that I may get little or no honey (no change there! )
I've already consolidated my understanding of bees and beehive construction by thinking about and doing this. If I can get bees to live happily in my container, then I'll be happy. There are plenty of challenges ahead, not least that PIR may not be tough enough for the challenges of removing comb.
I'll remember to update this as things progress and I'll honestly describe any failure or issues and proudly boast about my (more likely?) successes.

 

[Swarm]

It will be interesting to see what happens, I use 50mm and 25mm packers to dummy down my brood boxes and propolis can make moving them very difficult as they are so delicate and easily damaged.

 

[blackcloud]

Beware.
They can gnaw through the foil coating in a heartbeat

 

[user 20297]

Beware.
They can gnaw through the foil coating in a heartbeat

I'm still waiting for them to do that on the crownboards I've made from PIR and have been using for a year.
I have a solution to that, which I would prefer to avoid...painting them internally with roofseal.

 

[blackcloud]

 

[user 20297]

View attachment 33776

Oops! No arguing against that! Did you have any unsealed edges? I wonder if those perforations allowed them to get their teeth in? Are you sure you had bees in that box?!?!

 

[blackcloud]

I've made a few things from Kingspan and low density poystryene only to have them vandalised by the occupants
But cleaning off propolis was the biggest downside
I suppose a plywood core would alleviate the issue.
I do like your project however!

 

[user 20297]

I've made a few things from Kingspan and low density poystryene only to have them vandalised by the occupants
But cleaning off propolis was the biggest downside
I suppose a plywood core would alleviate the issue.
I do like your project however!

I want propolis. The Greek beekeeping expert whom I visited implied that sticky bees were the best bees.
I thought about lining it, but then it gets more complicated and it may as well be made of wood in the first place. By accident, the one part of this project that genuinely follows Warre's principles, is that it's cheap and it's easy to make with simple tools and easily obtainable materials. If I struggle to make it work properly, maybe that will be authentic too?
I've had three hives with PIR floors all summer and use about half a dozen PIR crownboards in various configurations as clearer boards, feed boards and adaptor plates from one size hive to another. I once had a small amount of damage on a badly taped partition board.
I always tape exposed edged and any damage using aluminium foil tape.

 

[pargyle]

I want propolis. The Greek beekeeping expert whom I visited implied that sticky bees were the best bees.
I thought about lining it, but then it gets more complicated and it may as well be made of wood in the first place. By accident, the one part of this project that genuinely follows Warre's principles, is that it's cheap and it's easy to make with simple tools and easily obtainable materials. If I struggle to make it work properly, maybe that will be authentic too?
I've had three hives with PIR floors all summer and use about half a dozen PIR crownboards in various configurations as clearer boards, feed boards and adaptor plates from one size hive to another. I once had a small amount of damage on a badly taped partition board.
I always tape exposed edged and any damage using aluminium foil tape.

You are following in the footsteps of a much missed former member ... DerekM

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/users/derekm.6228/
6000 posts most of them about the thermal properties of PIR built hives ... not so experimental.

If you get a chance to hear him speak - take it. Very interesting and scientifically investigated obsvervations ....

 

[BaconWizard]

I want propolis. The Greek beekeeping expert whom I visited implied that sticky bees were the best bees.
I thought about lining it, but then it gets more complicated and it may as well be made of wood in the first place. By accident, the one part of this project that genuinely follows Warre's principles, is that it's cheap and it's easy to make with simple tools and easily obtainable materials. If I struggle to make it work properly, maybe that will be authentic too?
I've had three hives with PIR floors all summer and use about half a dozen PIR crownboards in various configurations as clearer boards, feed boards and adaptor plates from one size hive to another. I once had a small amount of damage on a badly taped partition board.
I always tape exposed edged and any damage using aluminium foil tape.

If you make a cup of tea, settle down for an hour and then type “Marla Spivak propolis” into YouTube you’ll get the whole picture so far as it is known. Propolis is definitely your (and the bees’) friend

Love this project and following with interest.

 

[user 20297]

You are following in the footsteps of a much missed former member ... DerekM

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/media/users/derekm.6228/
6000 posts most of them about the thermal properties of PIR built hives ... not so experimental.

If you get a chance to hear him speak - take it. Very interesting and scientifically investigated obsvervations ....

I've seen some of Derek's posts before, but never realised he had gone into such detail and experimented so much.
Some of his later posts are very technical; so much so that I had thought that maybe he was losing sight of the fun element in beekeeping; having seen some of his designs, he definitely wasn't. I'm certainly not taking my own, relatively simplistic efforts too seriously, but I will read up on his experiences.
For those who don't know, he's gone from the Forum, but, (I'm pleased to say) not actually gone

 

[user 20297]

If you make a cup of tea, settle down for an hour and then type “Marla Spivak propolis” into YouTube you’ll get the whole picture so far as it is known. Propolis is definitely your (and the bees’) friend

Love this project and following with interest.

I'm glad that you you find this effort interesting. I will post updates. The idea of messing with bees for the sake of it and not prioritising honey production is something that has only come to me since having enough bees to spare a few for experimenting.
Next year, I'll definitely be trying them in even simpler containers, especially around the time of the hitherto, unexpected heather crop around here.

 

[pargyle]

Derek's wife, Elaine, was the beekeeper ... he started out (like many of us do) seeking a cheaper, thermally efficient, DIY possible, alternative to all the commercial hive offerings available rather than becoming a beekeeper per se. He developed the method of bamboo barbecue skewers, no more nails and aluminium tape for construction and I think he even made the first ever PIR hive cosy for timber hives. I have been to several of his lectures * talks* in his early days and he was pretty inspiring. Yes, he may have got lost in the science later on and took some undue criticism on here - which is why he left - but all of his posts are still here and there are some gems when you look.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have a brood box that Stan routed inside for me and I put my stickiest bees in it. They have largely ignored the grooves as far as propolis goes

 

[BaconWizard]

I have a brood box that Stan routed inside for me and I put my stickiest bees in it. They have largely ignored the grooves as far as propolis goes

I assume that the grooves need to be less than a bee-space in width, and deep enough to be significant to the bees (whatever that turns out to be, but something in the back of my mind from a lecture makes me think 7mm deep)

I don’t know if that suggests why it hasn’t worked for you or whether your box disproves everything I just said…

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

would have been better using a drill mounted wire brush or similar

 

[user 20297]

I have

I assume that the grooves need to be less than a bee-space in width, and deep enough to be significant to the bees (whatever that turns out to be, but something in the back of my mind from a lecture makes me think 7mm deep)

I don’t know if that suggests why it hasn’t worked for you or whether your box disproves everything I just said…

My experience is that some bees will propolise anything and other bees can hardly be bothered to do as the books tell them. The argument would be that the latter would be more at risk of sickness. I think that concept, of trying to "force" them to do it will only end up with propolis being laid down in proportion to their baseline characteristics.

 

[JamezF]

The argument would be that the latter would be more at risk of sickness.

Or that they're more robust and have less need to coat everything in propolis?

James

 

[user 20297]

Or that they're more robust and have less need to coat everything in propolis?

James

That might be the argument. .