Ethical dilemma

[jon]

If I took a swarm with a marked queen and a reasonable idea where they came from I'd definitely try to reunite them with their original owner.

Unless you actually see the bees leaving the hive it is all speculation as to where it has come from.

I have a friend who has put up a load of bait hives on his land and he says he is hoping to catch one of my swarms.
If I lose one he is welcome to it.

The best colony I have at the moment was a prime swarm which had been living behind the fascia board of a non-beekeeping friend's house. I collected it last June and he said it had been there since the previous summer. I also got a great cast a week later. Both were collected about 5 feet from the ground. The remaining bees died out over the winter. Not surprising as they had a high level of varroa.

 

[jon]

As a few members on here know I passed a kidney stone last week that put me out of action for 48 hours so I was 2 days late to inspect one of my out apiaries.

When I arrived I had a large primary swarm in a tree 30ft up....

I hope you got your swarm collected ok.

I nearly got caught out on Sunday.
I inspected on Friday 1st May and Saturday 9th was poor weather so I left it to Sunday 10th. I found a load of queen cells including one which had just been sealed. Fortunately the queen was still there so I was able to do a split.

 

[grizzly]

I think its obvious from all the comments that there are so many factors involved, it really has to be judged on a case by case basis, its impossible to generalise on this subject.

If i had 20 hives and i lost some swarms, then so be it, however if i only had a few and a neighbouring beek took one of mine and knew it, perhaps rubbing my nose in it i would without doubt smack him one.

 

[David P]

Hmmm MP's expenses.

Just coz something is legal doesnt make it morally right.

If it was me i wouldnt make a big song and dance about it at the branch aipary, but maybe have a quiet word with the aipary manager. If he would like it back im sure you could come to some freindly arrangement along the lines of a couple of mated queens later in the season. That way a newbie still gets a nuc and you gett a couple of queens of known origin later on.



David

 

[jon]

maybe have a quiet word with the apiary manager.
David

Noone knows for sure where that swarm came from.
There are a lot of queens with a red spot on the thorax as it is the 2008 colour.
It may well be that the local apiary has not lost a swarm.
There is a lot of speculation without checking out the obvious.

 

[Geoff]

I would agree with David. In capturing the swarm then Bucks_Boy has done them a service at least and removed a potential embarrassment. People get frightened of swarms and might get upset if they have to put up with swarms on an irregular basis.
If they want them back then so be it but he deserves something for his time, effort and expense. A quiet word, as David says would put him on the moral high ground which is no bad thing. Being on good terms with the apiary manager, having saved him an embarrassment, is probably worth more than a swarm.
I have got a bait hive out now but if i caught one I would probably try and find out whose it is in this small town. After all I might need a favour one day.

 

[gtb]

So, I'm walking down the lane, and come across a £100 ( possible value of a swarm today ) laying on the floor. I happen to know who it belongs to. What to do?

Exactly. If you happen to know who it belongs to then you give it back. That's not even close to a "gray area".

 

[Hombre]

If through ineptitude or bad luck I was to lose a swarm and not be on hand to pursue it, then I would not expect to be able to claim it back or to be offered it back. I would also apply the same rule to any swarm that I was able to collect.
If I was to find a £100 not in the road, I would very quietly ask if anyone had lost one. I would then quiz the queue of claimants to ascertain which one of them knew the serial number on the note, verifying ownership beyond a doubt.
If you want to postcode your queen then you might after all be in with a chance. I think myself to be a fair man.

 

[BKF Admin]

I now have a new breed of bee called "Marathon flyers".
If anyone finds a swarm in the uk its mine and I would like it returned please.

 

[grizzly]

They would be a bugger to move - bang goes the 3feet-3mile rule.

 

[buffalow]

Could we set up a European database of bee DNA .That way there would be no doubt of ownership , owners could be made responsible for any costs involved retreiving the bees, maybee the local police could take custody of them while they contact the owner,
or would this be against EU rules?

 

[East Yorks New Bee]

When I get my bees next month I am going to stamp my name and address on the underside of their wings, like they do with racing pidgeons Then no one can say they are not my bees Oh and maybe an ID bracelet on one leg of each one too.

 

[BKF Admin]

Could we set up a European database of bee DNA .That way there would be no doubt of ownership , owners could be made responsible for any costs involved retreiving the bees, maybee the local police could take custody of them while they contact the owner,
or would this be against EU rules?

But who could they get to run the database ?

Maybe they could ask the BBK-I will get my coat..

 

[Geoff]

No we need what the EU are doing with sheep. Each bee will be fitted with a tag.Iit would be another new line for Thornes

 

[jon]

Anyone who has kept bees for any length of time will have lost a few swarms and retrieved a few swarms. It all balances out in the end unless you make no attempt at swarm control. Last year I lost 2 prime swarms when colonies built up far more quickly than expected on the OSR but I got a couple of nice ones which weren't mine a month later. Swings and roundabouts.

 

[buffalow]

But who could they get to run the database ?

Maybe they could ask the BBK-I will get my coat..

Yes Admin

you could be the Bee Administrive Database Advisory Secretary or BADAS for short..

Sorry I had to, anyway serious from now on ,,

 

[grizzly]

Lol :d

 

[Bucks_Boy]

Thanks for all your Comments.
To cut a long story short, I felt I should offer to return it ( I do have to socialise with these people for the next few years if I want to keep beekeeping) but wanted some kind of recognition ( ie a free pass to miss the next working party at least !! ) so contacted the Apiary manager.
Turns out an experienced member of the association collected a swarm and , lacking the woodwork at home, dumped it into an empty Apiary hive, much to the manager's annoyance. Fortunately they didnt like the new home and absconded the next day......
So, he was pleased I caught it, was happy that I kept it and did not want to introduce bees of an unknown quality/temper into a teaching apiary.
Also,for my honesty, he has offered me a queen from the queen raising course if the swarm proves to be "frisky" .

All in all, a result ( except I still have to go to the next working party .......)

 

[gtb]

Good for you Bucks_Boy! and good to see that your karma is in tact too.

 

[Haughton Honey]

Excellent. A happy and productive ending all around I think!