Early bird catches the queen???

[louiseww]

As a newbie I have a colony, doing well, but the queen has not been marked. I set about finding her today and I did, but I got so excited that I fumbled the queen cage and pen and by that time she had ambled off! I marked the frame and came back after inspecting the whole hive but still couldn't find her.
Any tips on how to put her in a cage without killing/damaging her in my excitment!
Thanks
Louise

 

[simonf]

Check out utube loads of videos, still trying to find my queens, was hoping to do it before the drones start showing but no luck as of yet

 

[oliver90owner]

Anyone hunting through for a queen to mark has two problems to contend with.

Firstly the colony is being pulled apart, dissected and rummaged through while the weather is not too convivial for that (well certainly at my location) and secondly, you are marking your precious queens and taking the risk of losing them at a time when emergency replacement is certainly not automatic.

You are risking damage (or even death) of the queen, rejection by the workers (supercedure or emergency cells) and expecting any new queen to be successfully mating in early May - another risk in the UK.

If you have spare queens, several colonies, or are experienced, then go ahead. If you only have a single colony or very few and inexperienced, you are simply asking for trouble by marking the queen in March.

My view and doubtless there will be some who disagree. I say 'think' before taking actions where the outcome could be embarrassing. Become a beekeeper.

RAB

 

[Queens59]

My last queen used to waggle around the frame showing off...but this one (being marked blue) has disappeared...So - as long as she is laying and there is brood at all stages....RELAX!!!

 

[richardbees]

Louise

This is an excellent post as many new beekeepers will be wanting to mark queens for the first time now.

My method is to have a box, similar to a narrow nuc with no entrance, which I put next to the hive.
After finding the queen, I put the frame she's on in the box and put a cloth over the opened brood box.

She's then easily found when you've got the cage etc organised...after marking I'd suggest leaving her to wander around on the frame for a few minutes (to let the paint dry) before carefully re-introducing the frame back into the hive.

richard

 

[TBRNoTB]

Louise

This is an excellent post as many new beekeepers will be wanting to mark queens for the first time now.

My method is to have a box, similar to a narrow nuc with no entrance, which I put next to the hive.
After finding the queen, I put the frame she's on in the box and put a cloth over the opened brood box.

She's then easily found when you've got the cage etc organised...after marking I'd suggest leaving her to wander around on the frame for a few minutes (to let the paint dry) before carefully re-introducing the frame back into the hive.

richard

What an excellent answer, without a snide comment!

 

[SixFooter]

I love it. I'll make one tomorrow.

 

[Hombre]

What's that, narrow box or snide comment? LoL

 

[RoseCottage]

I agree with Rab...at this time of year the logic of marking is against new beekeepers with few colonies.

If you can see eggs/capped brood relax until more reliable conditions are available.

If I remember last year PolyHive made a good proposal for locating the queen...

Essentially you divide the brood into three sets of frames and check and remove with a small time gap between set searches. This is intended to give the queen time to move onto the frames. Eventually you should spot her...

When we marked our queens last year it worked a treat for us. Richard's idea post finding is also good.

Practice first on a couple of drones as inexperience may lead to squabbles with loved ones...we have 2 very, very, blue queens and had a row about the survivability of a full body painting. When the queen of colony 1 was painted she wriggled in the cage, number 2 had the life nearly squeezed out of her...somehow they still got accidentally covered.

Sam

 

[keithgrimes]

This is NOT meant to be a snide response, its a genuine query. I just don't understand why a lot of books and experienced beekeepers place so much emphasis on finding and marking the queen. Surely if there are eggs and brood, all is well, and the quicker one can be doing an inspection without ferretting about looking for and marking a queen the better. Can someone enlighten me please?

 

[tonybloke]

marking last years queens can lead to problems ( possible damage to queen, bees may 'ball' her due to paint smell)
IMHO it ain't worth doing at this time of year, if you want marked queens, do it while they're young.

 

[rae]

This is NOT meant to be a snide response, its a genuine query. I just don't understand why a lot of books and experienced beekeepers place so much emphasis on finding and marking the queen. Surely if there are eggs and brood, all is well, and the quicker one can be doing an inspection without ferretting about looking for and marking a queen the better. Can someone enlighten me please?

Agreed - particularly at this stage of the year.

If you have eggs (standing up) she was there very recently indeed, so you don't need to find her.

About the only operation where you really need to find the queen is an artificial swarm. There are probably others, but I don't recall them from last year!

When we ASd our colonies last year and 4 new ones were created, we didn't specifically go out to mark the queen - we simply carried the queen cage and paint with us. If we saw her, so much the better, she got marked. If we didn't see her, there was always next time. All of them ended up marked eventually.

I say 'think' before taking actions where the outcome could be embarrassing. Become a beekeeper.

Harshly put, but true. I'm just beginning my third year, so only slightly a bee keeper. We have to think "why" we are doing what we do and what the outcome will be. Just because the queen should be marked, it doesn't mean that we should do it at the most high risk time of the year. Same with inspections: just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

 

[louiseww]

Thank you for the advice Richard I will try that at the weekend. Weather here is very good at 14 degrees and set to be warmer up to 17 at the weekend.
Louise

Louise

This is an excellent post as many new beekeepers will be wanting to mark queens for the first time now.

My method is to have a box, similar to a narrow nuc with no entrance, which I put next to the hive.
After finding the queen, I put the frame she's on in the box and put a cloth over the opened brood box.

She's then easily found when you've got the cage etc organised...after marking I'd suggest leaving her to wander around on the frame for a few minutes (to let the paint dry) before carefully re-introducing the frame back into the hive.

richard

 

[louiseww]

This is NOT meant to be a snide response, its a genuine query. I just don't understand why a lot of books and experienced beekeepers place so much emphasis on finding and marking the queen. Surely if there are eggs and brood, all is well, and the quicker one can be doing an inspection without ferretting about looking for and marking a queen the better. Can someone enlighten me please?

I am probably going to split off some of the two colonies I have to make a third when the time is right (with the help of the chairman of the group). He told me to try and mark my queen so we know if she stays or goes!
I really hate all these snide comments it is totally unnecessary particularly when there are many people who are beginners and novices and don't pretend to know much!
Thanks
Louise

 

[louiseww]

Anyone hunting through for a queen to mark has two problems to contend with.

Firstly the colony is being pulled apart, dissected and rummaged through while the weather is not too convivial for that (well certainly at my location) and secondly, you are marking your precious queens and taking the risk of losing them at a time when emergency replacement is certainly not automatic.

You are risking damage (or even death) of the queen, rejection by the workers (supercedure or emergency cells) and expecting any new queen to be successfully mating in early May - another risk in the UK.

If you have spare queens, several colonies, or are experienced, then go ahead. If you only have a single colony or very few and inexperienced, you are simply asking for trouble by marking the queen in March.

My view and doubtless there will be some who disagree. I say 'think' before taking actions where the outcome could be embarrassing. Become a beekeeper.

RAB

Harsh words, yes I am aware that I know little and only in my third year of beekeeping! The chairman of the group with 25 years of experience told me to do this because we are going to split my two colonies which are going strong and make a third. I presume that we need to know where the queen is in the colony where she is unmarked. So as usual there is conflicting advice from two very experienced beeks - but I am learning that is par for the course in this game
Louise

 

[johna]

Reasons for marking queens:-
1.To identify which year she emerged
2.To spot her when the colony size increases and the hive is stuffed with bees.
3.Better to find the queen if you are planning to artificially swarm them.
4.If you intend to re-queen you dont want your new queen injured by the old one and the bees won't accept her if they are not queenless.
5.You need to know where she is if you intend to Demaree the bees.
6.If you find Q cells prior to swarming you need to find the queen before taking off splits or reason 3.

For once I entirely agree with RAB don't be in too much hurry to mark queens early in the season.

As for clipping queens I don't find this necessary as I inspect regularly and can generally keep on top of swarming.More of a comercial practice in my opinion.

 

[oliver90owner]

The chairman of the group with 25 years of experience told me to do this

Did he tell you to do it now?

Think carefully about it, because if he did, I will now ask you to think whether he is offering the best advice.

Beekeeping is not just an 'automaton' response to instructions - do something at a pre-determined date. Sooner or later you will have to make a decision for yourself. If you don't get it right the first time, you might the next, but thinking about it might just give the edge on getting it right first time for the bees. If you don't think about it you may well continue to get it wrong. 'Difference' analogy might be a fitter and an engineer, but there are others.

Maybe harsh, but sadly true; and for the snide one - the cap must actually be worn at this very time. Perhaps if they were actually to make any positive addition to the thread they might eventually achieve some credibility (of which they have very little).

 

[Springer]

I " think " everyone on here is a trying to become a beekeeper, or is already 101% qualified !!

Its quite easy to make a decision when you have experience on a subject, but much harder when you have only read a lot of books or talked to a lot of people, "experienced beekeepers" that is. !

I regularly post on a beer forum and know much more about that than beekeeping, but am trying, on there newbies are always given lots of help and encouragement ! Brewing decisions are usually very easy for me !! We all have to start somewhere!

I am aware that it is quite easy to make a flip comment that maybe comes out a bit over the top, or taken the wrong way, so stay cool all.

To the point, I can see where Louise was coming from, unmarked queen and queen cells, panic. I don't like to mention it but I think I read something in the Collins bible about tackling this situation,.............. but won't mention it for fear of a hammering............will go and have another read

 

[Hawklord]

The best thing to do with bee keeeping is ignore everybody, do your own thing and learn from your own mistakes. That way there is only 1 person to blame when it goes wrong. No matter how hard I try I can't seem to kill a colony. I think it would take something really drastic or a complete and utter fool to loose a colony. Good luck and happy bee keping.

 

[MJBee]

I have read this thread very carefully and can find no sign of any "snide remarks". what I have found is:-

Richardbees' very good answer to Louisww's question.

RAB's forcefully put advice on not marking too early and the reasons why.

Kiethgrimes Genuine query "why mark at all - if eggs are present all is well.

Tonyblokes comment - mark queens when young - agreed if you can find them "early" I am marking 2010 queens now BUT the weather here is probably a month ahead of he south of england.

Rae - When you AS your 4 colonies last year I bet the "old" queens were marked

Johna - good reply to Kieth's question.

RAB - Your post 17 - your final paragraph, As I said at the beginning What snide comment/poster.

Everyone