Dutch Ban on Ritual Slaughter

[drstitson]

not quite so crucial for mince BUT for sausages chilled/part defrosted meat is recommended in some circles (as well as working quickly on small batches).

 

[JamezF]

not quite so crucial for mince BUT for sausages chilled/part defrosted meat is recommended in some circles (as well as working quickly on small batches).

When I make sausages I chill the meat before mincing and again before stuffing the sausage skins. Not sure I'd want to risk using meat that had already been frozen for home production though. Might be different in an industrial situation when you have better temperature control.

James

 

[Storm™]

not quite so crucial for mince BUT for sausages chilled/part defrosted meat is recommended in some circles (as well as working quickly on small batches).

Really! God thats quite mangy. I guess i'm being naive.

 

[Midland Beek]

I just wonder, Midland Beek, how much research you've done into halal/kosher slaughtering?

I understood there was at least a reasonable case to be made that it is more humane than the 'western' practices. .

I think Westerners probably have the most enlightened attitudes to animal welfare of any people in the world. They even eat dogs in some parts of the world. I am inclined to think if slitting animals throats was a higher welfare method of slaughter than pre-stunning, us Westerners would be slaughtering our animals in that way.

And no Jew or Muslim eats Kosher or Halal becaue they think the animal has been slaughtered humanely. They eat Kosher and Halal because their religion dictates it.

 

[Storm™]

When I make sausages I chill the meat before mincing and again before stuffing the sausage skins. Not sure I'd want to risk using meat that had already been frozen for home production though. Might be different in an industrial situation when you have better temperature control.

James

James did you buy a special machine to help you make the sausages or do you just get some sort of sausage skin alternative and stuff it manually. Soon hopefully when we get a house, we will be keeping pigs. Sausages are a favourite and would like to make my own but sourcing a machine for it has been confusing. The same for the sausage skin.

Edit - found what seems like a cheap supplier of everything - http://www.sausagemaking.org/index.html

 

[tonybloke]

I think we might be surprised how much Kosher meat is in supermarkets and not labelled as such. It may be the same for Halal meat though I am not sure.

all meat from NZ is Halal ( NZ lamb)
all processed chicken from outside the EU is also Halal.

 

[JamezF]

James did you buy a special machine to help you make the sausages or do you just get some sort of sausage skin alternative and stuff it manually. Soon hopefully when we get a house, we will be keeping pigs. Sausages are a favourite and would like to make my own but sourcing a machine for it has been confusing. The same for the sausage skin.

Edit - found what seems like a cheap supplier of everything - http://www.sausagemaking.org/index.html

A proper sausage stuffer makes life much easier. I buy sheep and hog casings for fresh sausages and use ox runners for salami and chorizo, with a different style nozzle on the stuffer to suit the skin size. It takes a while to get the hang of.

At some point I shall justify the cost of a decent mincer rather than using the Kenwood, but they're far from cheap

The best part of growing your own pigs though is home-cured bacon...

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I just wonder, Midland Beek, how much research you've done into halal/kosher slaughtering?

I understood there was at least a reasonable case to be made that it is more humane than the 'western' practices.

My suspicion is that most of us are squeamish about how animals are turned into meat - but it's easier to criticise the practice of 'others'.

Unfortunately a lot of what we think is driven by the fluffy bunny brigade - when Mrs J worked for the chief vet's office she held a dim view of halal slaughter and voiced her thoughts to the vets - they (who spent time in these slaughter houses) totally disagreed with her.Apparently each animal is slaughtered alone, has to be calmed down before being prayed over i.e much less stressed before it is killed.
Dunno meself - I'm keeping an open mind on it

 

[Vergilius]

I would never be able to watch/act out any slaughter techniques - far too squeamish about that kind of thing. Although I try to cut down on my personal meat consumption, I see no problems whatsoever with eating it in moderation - and I would not mind eating Kosher; my understanding is that, as the blood drains, it sends the animal into a shock similar to electricuting - pretty horrible to think about, but perhaps not as bad as it seems on the surface???

I think we ought to be considerate to other cultures/faiths and their beliefs, whilst giving the animal its due consideration as well. Tricky one - not sure where I stand.

Ben P

 

[Erichalfbee]

My issue is whether I consider the method of slaughter inhumane.
I do.
That's exactly why I have made a decision that as far as meat is concerned I will eat only my home reared chooks.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

First went to a slaughter house when I was 8 killed, plucked and dressed my first chicken at 10 skinned and gutted my first rabbit at 11.
As my old granny used to say - if God didn't want us to eat meat he wouldn't have made cows out of steak.
I remember her telling my wife to be about the first pig my grandparents had - just before the second world war, my grandmother, not a real countrywoman brought the piglet up as a pet basically, it followed the dog and cat to greet my grandfather back from the mine and she called it Horace, she then went on to tell WTB of the day when it was slaughtered - Granddad couldn't do it in their cottage as the rafters were too low so he went to the farm two fields down the mountain 'come on Horace', he said and whistled and Horace trotted to heel over the fields to his fate. By this stage of the story the now Mrs J had tears streaming down her face - My grandmother wiped a tear from her eye, leant back and said.... 'nicest bit of pork I've ever tasted'
My point is, I think we have all got a bit too divorced from the initial part of the food process - we don't want to know where our meat comes from therefore we don't really know what happens and get squeamish when we hear the details of slaughter methods which we don't really understand.

 

[Baggyone]

Being a sausage maker by trade (we make about 18,000 a week all linked by hand) there is definatly an art in making a good one. Forget all those collegen skins as they are rubbish, if your sausage is tough then chances are its the skin. The right skins have already been said on the thread but even they vary a lot.

The meat has to be chilled but does not need to have been frozen, the single most important thing is cold water. This lubricates everything and makes the whole job easier. The hanging bit is the trickiest thing for the home producer. Not many people have walk in fridges at home.

We have a mincer that would crush bones and everything when put through BUT it does not cook the meat cos of the speed. Just a load of nonsense adding frozen meat to fresh. Only thing I can think of it that because its on a production line it keeps the temp down long enough to get back to the fridge.

There is also no way on gods (whichever one you like) would I consider junior schools going to an abattoir.

Please, PLEASE support your local butcher, yes we will be cheaper for better quality meat. We get plenty of people coming in at xmas getting what they consider to be better quality cos its xmas but its the same stuff we have all year round, but we don't see them.

Baggy (if anyone likes goose then we will be significantly cheaper than most southern butchers)

 

[Storm™]

my understanding is that, as the blood drains, it sends the animal into a shock similar to electricuting

Ben P

It has the word shock in it Ben its called Hypovolemic shock (Hypo for low and volemic - Volume) so low blood volume basically. With electric shock it renders the victim unconscious (usually), but with rapid blood loss the heart rate has to increase to keep up blood pressure. Otherwise the animal would - well feint. Pass out. But in order to keep up the bloods required pressure the heart beats faster, and blood vessels constrict and harden to aid the heart keep pressure on. In humans (i'm not a vet so I cannot be sure about animals) adrenaline courses round the system as the body detects a massive attack on its well being. Back to the animal, blood is restricted to the animals core (its main trunk) in order to help the heart still further. Blood is kept to a minimum in the extremities of the legs. This action is called shock as well, and now the heart has a steady supply of blood, because most of it is in the animals core. The blood is allocated for lungs, heart, the rest of the core organs but mainly the brain to keep the animal - or us - fully alert as can be in case there is a chance of survival and escape. Adrenaline has the effect of speeding up our perception. So for example if our usual refresh rate on our field of vision was 300 times a second, adrenaline speeds that right up to say 3 times the rate. It has the effect of slowing things down visually. Thats why when we have accidents you hear people say - it all happened in slow motion.

So - animal - alert as can be, struggling for breath, heart racing well above what it should be doing, fear fight and flight chemicals coursing round its body, which I know in humans cause I have seen it often enough, causes thrashing but apparently does not happen with animals, slowly bleeds to death.

 

[bee ginnner]

, and probably lots from greedy farmers in the UK who do not give a wotsit about animal welfare.

Don't you mean slaughterhouses? they are the ones that kill the animal and sell to whichever market.

farmers GENERALLY produce live animals, mostly to a high standard but there are always exceptions of course just like everybody else.

 

[victor meldrew]

Local farmer finished up in court around here for providing goats to a local 'clergyman' and allowing ritual slaughter in one of his barns .
(Guilty as Charged)
VM

 

[bee ginnner]

i personally believe ALL junior school children should visit an abbattoir and then make up their minds about eating meat.

That seems a tad extreme, and hardly doing the kids any favours. let adults make up there own minds.

Everytime something like this comes up there is always a lot of discrimination against farmers, why are they hated so when they are such an important part of our lives?

 

[Storm™]

A proper sausage stuffer makes life much easier. I buy sheep and hog casings for fresh sausages and use ox runners for salami and chorizo, with a different style nozzle on the stuffer to suit the skin size. It takes a while to get the hang of.

At some point I shall justify the cost of a decent mincer rather than using the Kenwood, but they're far from cheap

The best part of growing your own pigs though is home-cured bacon...

James

Got it - thanks James and Baggy. That website I put up had a hand mincer for £23.00 - my mates dad owned - still owns a butchers up in Lemington Spa. His dad would give him the hand mincer as his chores on a Saturday. I have to say electric mincers sound good but the girls flocked to my mates forearms and all cause of that Saturday job with his dad lol. Plus that hand mincer on that link has sausage skin nozzles included. Skins are £6.99 for 28 mil for I think it was 32 meters. Sounds cheap to me but I only just looked a few seconds ago for the first time ever. Mechanical sausage makers for £139.00 and up.

 

[Skyhook]

As my old granny used to say - if God didn't want us to eat meat he wouldn't have made cows out of steak.

As the cannibal said- if god hadn't meant us to eat people, he wouldn't have made us of meat.

 

[JamezF]

I never had any success with the sausage fillers that fit on the end of mincers. My three litre (I think) filler makes life *so* much easier. Proper butchers make it look easy and could probably turn out a reasonable-looking sausage if someone threw the mince at them from the other side of the room, but if you're just doing it for personal satisfaction then having a decent sausage-stuffing machine makes the entire process far less stressful.

Oh, and if you have the space and spare cash, I'd recommend a spare fridge just for meat processing. And make at least one leg of pork into an air-dried ham.

James

 

[Erichalfbee]

That seems a tad extreme, and hardly doing the kids any favours. let adults make up there own minds.

I was horrified enough at 20 years old!
I never went to another meat inspection class after that.