Double brood

[Hivemaker.]

Much the same, only i use a framed excluder under the top box, which has an entrance, and i face the entrance to the front, saves on having lots of confused bees when the configuration changes.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If quite a lot of those frames are stores then remove them, arrange the frames and replace with drawn comb or foundation.

great for making up nucs etc.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

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Demarree :

Super helpful, thank you, and this is currently my direction of travel (esp with Pete's agreement). Do you then split if needed later in the season?

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do you then split if needed later in the season?

Depending on the strength of the colony, you could split, use some brood and bees to make up nucs, or towards the end of the main honey flow let all the brood in the top box emerge, and the combs be filled with honey, then remove any boxes of honey in between, and place the top box full of stores back down on the bottom box for winter.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Depending on the strength of the colony, you could split, use some brood and bees to make up nucs, or towards the end of the main honey flow let all the brood in the top box emerge, and the combs be filled with honey, then remove any boxes of honey in between, and place the top box full of stores back down on the bottom box for winter.

Thanks, Pete. Fingers crossed (but hopeful...)

 

[Goran]

Who's going with db config for winter ?

Little late, but You mean this? Double lang. Brood in the upper mainly. Stores considered enough at our place from 12-18kg for overwintering. Some says even 10kg enough. Carnica. There are some stretched through both boxes, vary but not crucial. I overwinter in one lang also easily ( and fully prepare for a spring forage), but this way I already prepared for spring madness and considered overwinter nicer in two boxes..

This is how I learn, don't say is better from something else. Just system which work well and won't change till it fail..

 

[Finman]

Double lang.
Brood in the upper mainly.
Stores considered enough at our place from 12-18kg for overwintering. Some says even 10kg enough.
Carnica.
I overwinter in one lang
..

With that recipe hive does not go over winter.

To minimize sugar makes no sense. 1 euro/kg


Our hives survive with one feeding from Sep to start of May = 8 months.

I had Carnicas 10 years. No difference to Italians.

But I have visited in Croatia 1983. Their summer is longer than ours.
I still have Verbascum nigrum plants which I took as seeds from Plitvice National Park.

.

.

 

[For want of a better word]

To see the colonies through the winter...

Double brood.... Ligurian ( Italian derivatives inc "Buckfasts" , NZ, Hawaiian etc) 20kg stores on an average... some will store up to 35kg.
Carniolian... much the same

Cornish Black bees ( Apis mellifera mellifera) usually on single brood and in polly hives 10 kg..... if that!

This is in the mostly sub tropical mild Tamar Valley... not in HOT HOT HOT Croatia or COLD COLD COLDEST frozen Finland... I need to add!

 

[royaber]

Snelgrove boards are still around as well - I have half a dozen but only use them as crown boards

 

[Finman]

To see the colonies through the winter...

Double brood.... Ligurian ( Italian derivatives inc "Buckfasts" , NZ, Hawaiian etc) 20kg stores on an average... some will store up to 35kg.
Carniolian... much the same

Cornish Black bees ( Apis mellifera mellifera) usually on single brood and in polly hives 10 kg..... if that!

This is in the mostly sub tropical mild Tamar Valley... not in HOT HOT HOT Croatia or COLD COLD COLDEST frozen Finland... I need to add!

The Basic idea is that you MUST feed the hive full, otherwise bees do not cap the food. Open food takes moisture and it swells out.

It is then different thing what the colony consumes.

It depends too, how much you leave honey into hive.

I had Apis mellifera melliferas 30 years....nothing good to say about them....


What are the best yields of Cornish Black bees?, or averages..

.

 

[Finman]

Douple brood is a mystery in British beekeeping. It may be winter, summer or what ever, it is a mystery.

It is only a place of queen excluder. I do not use excluder and I mostly use 3 Langstroth as brood boxes.

Mostly my hives are over winter half in one box and half in 2 box. Very seldom all in two box. I love to winter bees in two box, but sadly colonies are not all so strong.

But nothing makes it a mystery. 2 box wintering is, if one box is too small. So simple.

 

[beeno]

Hi Swarm,
I was actually trying to answer farbee and TTLTB concerns. You?
Surely, switching is only an option if there were any room in the first place. As stated bbb no room to lay and tbb full of stores!
We can then carry on by saying lack of room: for the queen to lay, to store nectar or for the bees themselves to find somewhere to sit... will lead to swarming and what to do to alleviate this... but that was not the question I was answering.

 

[Swarm]

So was I, what's your problem? Some beeks advocate swapping the brood chambers every fortnight mid season.

 

[Finman]

.
brood swapping and to get rid of winter food and crystallized honey

In double brood system swapping has many advantages


- you mobilize last winter food from combs, and old pollen too
- even consumption of brood combs
- more laying area
- prevents swarming


What I do is, I let the colony use 2 brood boxes in natural way.
First upper box is full and then laying moves towards bottom when colony start to get new bees and expands.

If you swap the boxes too early, cold kills often the lowers brood and you may loose 30% of yiour brood, --- Yes, I have seen it.
It is same thing if you put super too early.

And if you have one box after winter, add the second brood under the brood that bees can move them selves down.

When boath brood boxes are full, and it is time to hgve first super, then swap the brood boxes. Now bees are able to move stores to the super.

It does not help if bees just move between 2 brood boxes.

If you have winter sugar too much and nectar start to come in, take extra sugar frames off. You really do not want to sell winter sugar to your customers.

You may give extra frames to swarms, nucs of false swarms and bees use the stuff in comb building and feeding larvae.

 

[Finman]

.
This comb has not been swapped

Centre has too old cells and peripheria (2/3) has had too few brooding..

When you swap the combs, bees clean the honey store area. In the middle of brood ball the cells will be layed very quickly.

You may move sidemost frames in the middle of lower box, and again, bee start to use them for brooding. Then to the free sites in upper box, put foundations.

But do this all later when hive is getteing plenty of new bees and first honey is coming into the hive.

 

[Ely]

Without an excluder would the queen always move up to lay and never move down?

 

[Finman]

Without an excluder would the queen always move up to lay and never move down?

I do not use excluder and the queen lays where it ought to lay BUT

Secret is amount of ventilation


If you have too much bottom ventilation, queen stays away from cold areas. Sidemost frames are such too.

In early summer I keep quite small main entrance and no mesh floor. I look from number of ventilating bees, how much it really needs ventilation.

In summer I have 5-7 boxes, and still queen stays in brood boxes.

When I take off the entrance reducer for main yield, queens leave the lowest brood box and bees will fill the box with pollen.

That is why I use 3 brood boxes. Lowest will be filled with pollen.

There is too much room for brood. Part of frames bees fill with honey and those frames I will move to supers, when I arrange the hive.

During main yield I let them be as they will. Main thing is that they forage nectar. The hive is mere mesh, but when nectar flow ceases, bees start to arrange things and I do the rest later.


During spring I use heating cables. In many hives queen descend to lay near heating source.

.

 

[REDWOOD]

I do not use excluder and the queen lays where it ought to lay BUT

Secret is amount of ventilation


If you have too much bottom ventilation, queen stays away from cold areas. Sidemost frames are such too.

In early summer I keep quite small main entrance and no mesh floor. I look from number of ventilating bees, how much it really needs ventilation.

In summer I have 5-7 boxes, and still queen stays in brood boxes.

When I take off the entrance reducer for main yield, queens leave the lowest brood box and bees will fill the box with pollen.

That is why I use 3 brood boxes. Lowest will be filled with pollen.

There is too much room for brood. Part of frames bees fill with honey and those frames I will move to supers, when I arrange the hive.

During main yield I let them be as they will. Main thing is that they forage nectar. The hive is mere mesh, but when nectar flow ceases, bees start to arrange things and I do the rest later.


During spring I use heating cables. In many hives queen descend to lay near heating source.

.

So all your boxes are the same size making it possible to move brood frames into supers, most of us in the UK don't have this option as our super frames are smaller than our brood frames

 

[beeno]

So was I, what's your problem? Some beeks advocate swapping the brood chambers every fortnight mid season.

Sorry, Swarm, but I don't get it. We are talking a summer situation here. TBB full of stores and BBB full of brood. In the short term all I can see is swarming. What you do need is a super and another broodbox? Autum preparations for going into winter yes swap them around.

 

[Finman]

So all your boxes are the same size making it possible to move brood frames into supers, most of us in the UK don't have this option as our super frames are smaller than our brood frames

I use medium langstroth (2/3) as supers and full langstroths as brood and as supers. Normal hive system is 3 langstroths + 4-6 mediums.

But it can be what ever. 10 mediums or 6 langstroths. What ever. Main thing is that bees catch the nectar from field when it is flow.

You have such option as you want. What I wonder is your panic with excluder. It is quite difficult to renew frames, if you do not use them fist as supers. During main flow hive draw one box of foundation in one week.

50 years ago we had same system in Finland. There were many kind of hives and super and brood were not compatible.