Do you need to carry a epipen.

[madasafish]

I would like to see all the case studies of illness/death through use of epipens...

Warnings about misuse are worthless to the general public unless examples of what might happen are given..

No examples = false alarms..

I've done a search and could not find any: that does not mean there are none .. BUT...

 

[MODNOD]

Some interesting and helpfull anwsers.

The verbal instructions i was given as to whether i used the epipen or not was to wait and see how i reacted, and only use it if the reaction was out of the ordinary for a bee sting.

As to training to use it,well that was as per the videne point i will add that is not on the video is that skin fat and muscle are more dense than you think so if you need to use one whack it in prety hard.


Bee keeping is not just a hobby but part of my working day along with other livestock that all have there own ways of sending you to A&E.

 

[psafloyd]

I carry one as insurance !
Epipens carry full instructions, their web site has an excellent video demmo!.
It also makes the symptoms of Anaphylaxia very clear so as to prevent unnecessary use!.
Remember , Anaphylaxis can strike the most seasoned beekeeper, without warning ! beekeepers usually work alone and often in isolated places, so it makes sense to cover ones' self!

John Wilkinson

I have thought about having one as a precaution, as until a couple of weeks ago, I had never been stung by a bee.

What is the website, please?

 

[drex]

As a doctor, if I needed to have an epipen stuffed in me I could not give a damn about who stuffed it in me. If I waited until a trained medic arrived I might be dead.

The epipen treats the effects of the anaphylaxis only ( it contains adrenaline). It does not treat the allergy. That is an entirely different ball game.

If you have had one serious allergic reaction ( not necessarily anaphylaxis, which is the most serious allergic reaction you can have), the chances are you are likely to have another at some time. When? Who knows. How severe? who knows.

If it was me, and this was truly anaphylaxis I would look into allergy testing and desensitisation, if I wanted to continue to work with bees. Otherwise I would take antihistamine before I went to the bees.

Allergies can and do kill.

But what do I know?? Only a medic for the last 35 years. Never read the Lancet in my life!

 

[BBG]

"But what do I know?? Only a medic for the last 35 years. Never read the Lancet in my life!"

Shame, then you won't know how the drugs you prescribe might be making your patients ill - in the Lancet and American studies some years ago.

Good pay though and pretty unassailable with your Union!

 

[gavin]

I have to say that this worries me - the reason they are not given out routinely is that, OK, they can save lives if used at the right time by someone who really knows that they are doing, but their use carries risks as well. Don't even think of using one on someone else unless you are a qualified medical practitioner.

This is H&S at its worst I think. People are obsessed with rules and regs and litigation. There is however the "Good Samaritan Clause". If a non-trained person, administers aid in the best interest of the "patient" being sued is un-lokely. If I am ever in the postion of having to jab someone with an epipen, they will get it, no problem.

H&S at its worst?!

I don't think so. Let's imagine that a passer-by over the hedge gets stung one sunny Sunday morning. The unexpected pain shocks them and they react - maybe shortness of breath, lightheadedness, a touch of chest pain. What do you ask them? What do they tell you? Do they mention the chest pain first or the lightheadedness, the easy option. Then what - does your Epipen-wielding beekeeper come to the rescue with his or her shot of epinephrine?

When I read that someone thought it a good idea to carry an Epipen partly because the public would be near their bees that rang alarm bells. No doctor will train a patient in their surgery on how to handle a member of the public in distress and when to use and when not to use their Epipen on them.

There is a well-known risk of precipitating a heart attack by using an Epipen. Yes, in life-or-death situations when you are really sure that what you are seeing is anaphylaxis, preferably with medical help on the end of a mobile, I might consider using one on someone else. Litigation just wouldn't be on my mind at all. But if you are going to plan to use one then you need good training on how to identify panic attacks, cardiac stress of various kinds and anaphylaxis otherwise you may be doing more harm than good.

*Much* better to learn some basic First Aid such as the recovery position and the best position for anyone rendered unconscious by anaphylactic shock, then get on the phone quickly.

Gavin

 

[Silly Bee]

If I saw someone who looked as if s/he had gone into anaphlactic shock, then s/he would get jabbed with the pen.

I'd discuss the merits later.

I'm with the Doctor,,, see above ^^^^

 

[drstitson]

Bbg

Your reaction was NOT anaphylactic shock. It was simply a marked systemic reaction to several stings.

I admit that most doctors are unfamiliar with the range of presentations of bee stings - hence why most patients get antibiotics when not needed - BUT that does not mean that they are unaware of the risks of anaphylaxis.

I will get round to posting my recent personal collection of sting evolution photos at some point.

 

[drstitson]

epipen

"If I saw someone who looked as if s/he had gone into anaphlactic shock, then s/he would get jabbed with the pen.
"

If you see someone collapse with breathing difficulties shortly after being stung then you can be as sure as dammit that it is AS and the epipen may save a life.

I would imagine in this day and age that one might conceivably get sued by relatives of the deceased if it ever came to light (eg at an inquest) that potentially lifesaving treatment was available but witheld. The same situation would apply if you were trained in CPR but did not use it when needed.

 

[drstitson]

madasafish

is this the sort of thing you were after?

http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7389/589.extract



at the end of the day the dr prescribing the epipen to a particular patient has to weigh up the indication for it (previous severe/life threatening reaction +/- history of asthma etc) and any risks involved eg cardiac problems, other drugs prescribed.

In an otherwise healthy individual with no other meds, an epipen can be a lifesaver. In a cardiac cripple on more drugs than amy winehouse it might be lethal.

 

[victor meldrew]

is this the sort of thing you were after?

http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7389/589.extract



at the end of the day the dr prescribing the epipen to a particular patient has to weigh up the indication for it (previous severe/life threatening reaction +/- history of asthma etc) and any risks involved eg cardiac problems, other drugs prescribed.

In an otherwise healthy individual with no other meds, an epipen can be a lifesaver. In a cardiac cripple on more drugs than amy winehouse it might be lethal.

Epipen do state that it is expedient to administer to a heart patient if the situation has become critical !!

John Wilkinson

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Does anywhere recommend stabbing to the heart a la Pulp Fiction?

 

[MrMicawber]

I have to say that this worries me - the reason they are not given out routinely is that, OK, they can save lives if used at the right time by someone who really knows that they are doing, but their use carries risks as well. Don't even think of using one on someone else unless you are a qualified medical practitioner.


This is H&S at its worst I think. People are obsessed with rules and regs and litigation. There is however the "Good Samaritan Clause". If a non-trained person, administers aid in the best interest of the "patient" being sued is un-lokely. If I am ever in the postion of having to jab someone with an epipen, they will get it, no problem.

Steady on, if you give someone, or yourself, the contents of an epipen when they DON'T need it you are quite likely to kill them.

It is not just a case of oooh, my scalp itches and I feel a bit strange with tingly lips and so WHAMMO with the auto-inject adrenalin syringe.

It is very serious stuff and is strictly for the treatment of anaphylactic shock, NOT anaphylaxsis on it's own.

 

[MODNOD]

MrMicawber.

It is very serious stuff and is strictly for the treatment of anaphylactic shock, NOT anaphylaxsis on it's own.

What utter crap

 

[pbh4]

It is very serious stuff and is strictly for the treatment of anaphylactic shock, NOT anaphylaxsis on it's own.

While I agree that adrenaline is serious stuff and not to be administered lightly, I don't think there is a distinction to be drawn between anaphylaxis and anaphylactic shock. They are the same thing. Stick "define:anaphylaxis" into google to find out more.

But I might be wrong ...

Paul

 

[For want of a better word]

The best place for someone who is suspected of suffering with anaphylatic shock is the back of an ambulance.
Artificial respiration and CPR should keep them going whilst it gets there!
Epipens....drug companies have very strong marketing tactics to sell their products... am I being cynical????


How many posts to become a Drone?????????????????//

 

[victor meldrew]

The best place for someone who is suspected of suffering with anaphylatic shock is the back of an ambulance.
Artificial respiration and CPR should keep them going whilst it gets there!
Epipens....drug companies have very strong marketing tactics to sell their products... am I being cynical????


How many posts to become a Drone?????????????????//

Saturday evening I witnessed a young man get ploughed into by a motorcar whilst riding a motorcycle .
Paramedics were on the scene in a reasonable time !. Police about the same time . However ,30 mins down the line ,still no ambulance . I quizzed the police "they are all out, none available " The lad was in a bad way. the nearest A&E was 600 yards away , it was cold and raining !
Should this have been anaphylaxic shock then although the back of an ambulance would have been the best place there wouldn't have been one
I left at this juncture so I have no idea what time the ambulance finally arrived .
Moral of the story "CARRY an Epipen ", don't wait for the emergency services , it may take for ever explaining to the civilian 999 call centre that the emergency is real!!!! "BeeSting? Er! this is an emergency number ,here's the address of the nearest walk in centre Etc, etc, etc."


John Wilkinson

 

[For want of a better word]

Do paramedics carry adreniline.... most probably
Do paramedics carry an EPIPEN... probably not!

Perhaps I should have written ...
in the back of an ambulance with a paramedic or possibly not in the back of an ambulance with a paramedic or other qualified health proffessional ?

But then every one would think I was a bit of a stuffed shirt or even facecious!!!


How many posts before I can DRONE on and on and on and on and on and on and on.........????????????????????

 

[Black Comb]

You've made a good start

 

[oliver90owner]

How many posts before I can DRONE on and on and on and on and on and on and on.........????????????????????

Either ask Admin or scrutinise the members' lists to find the lowest number posts and listed as a drone.

Not seen it listed anywhere.

Regards, RAB