Dead Bees in Cells

[Spikedog]

We recently bought a Nuc (about three weeks ago). Very very slow to start but everyday sees more activity at the entrance, including orientation (small group). Today on weekly check we noted on one frame rows of cells with dead bees [look like full term]; heads just about protruding from each cell. As a novice - obviously anxious - Any advice as to what may have happened?

 

[tonybloke]

without further info, this is only a guess, but maybe there wasn't enough bees to keep the brood area warm?

 

[oliver90owner]

Are you sure they are dead? Sounds like bald brood to me.

 

[Winker]

without further info, this is only a guess, but maybe there wasn't enough bees to keep the brood area warm?

I had this after an AS this year, not enough bees left to keep all the brood warm enough to survuve. So the bees started to pull the dead/dieing bees from the comb and dumping them outside the hive

 

[Queens59]

Ask your local inspector to come and look - unless you have a good mentor...They are not boogie men, they are there to help you and the bees

 

[broandy]

try feeding

 

[Heather]

What feed did you give- could they have starved?

 

[DanBee]

Like this, or even more mature but dead with their tongues sticking out?

One of the signs of what is known as parasitic mite syndrome, i.e. excessive varroa mites. Have a look at the varroa booklet available free from the National Bee Unit.

 

[SunnyRaes]

Yup, we've had 2 nucs with the same problem in the last month or so and it appeared to be down to not enough bees to keep the brood warm. 1 pulled through and is now thriving, the other didn't and declined markedly over the last week, so we've just removed the tiny poorly laying queen and merged with the other nuc so at least they'll stand half a chance now.

 

[broandy]

Feed Feed Feed innit

 

[Finman]

.
What causes like that is varroa.

I have lost that way biggest hives in yard.
Or a colony looses 50% or 80% of bees.

How it happens.....

- a hive/nuc has a brood brake. All mites are free like in swarms or in shook swarms.

A hive has virgin which wait mating flights. Time goes and bees get old and die more and more
it depends how long mating waiting takes time in your weathers.

- then a new queen starts to lay
- when first brood emerge, at same time old bees have dropped to half or more.
- hive has high varroa load. They rush on first larvae which are near capping

- new emerged bees have been killed by varroa and the rest are violated and are short iving.
- the hive does not get new bees and old bees die more and more
- brood are too cold and they cannot emerge.
- bees try to clean dead brood = holes in capping.

- soon the hive is empty and what you see is some dead capped brood.

 

[Spikedog]

Great Response... Many thanks – Number of trains of thought. Oliver90 notion of Baldbrood sent us to the Books as we were not aware of it – Appears to be Moth or Queen (genetically) related. As the pattern is quite dense and not path like - can we discount moth? Will know for sure on Saturday next if “not dead”. So that avenue is still open.

As to feeding – we have fed syrup (top feeder) from start, but little enough taken down.

So if we discard Feeding we are left with Parasitic Mite (Varroa) and or not enough Bees to maintain brood. The latter was our own suspicion – It took approximately two days for these bees to emerge (outdoors) from the Nuc and even then they were old (black/bald). We note Finman’s comments as to older bees. These have been replaced by a more vigorous youthful flight (but scarce). So perhaps the answer lays here. Does this young flight knock down the notion of Varroa attack?

As to Mite: Dan Bee your photo was a great help and yes it resembled the situation but ours was of a greater density of bees (one frame only) and more uniform age profile. So what to do – I imagine it’s a no brainer but to move to Apigurd with this Nuc earlier than anticipated. But, will continue feeding prior to this (another week?) as little enough in the line of stores. We had thought of reinforcing it with a frame of capped brood but it appears that this would be throwing good after bad in view of a) Varroa attack and b) Not enough Bee’s to ‘nurse’ it.

Oh yes as the Nuc (unlike the Hives) does not have a mesh floor – How do ye count the mite drop in a Nuc (sticky paper is out so may crawl back up).

Comments much appreciated and would welcome any other advice.

 

[Into the lions den]

No pics and not enough info really, but wonder perhaps if the nuc was overheated in transit?

Several possibilities including it was just a duff unit supplied...........but a pic or two would help.

 

[Finman]

.
Draw out those dead brood and look how much you see mites. White dust at the cell bottoms are skins of mites.

 

[Finman]

No pics and not enough info really, but wonder perhaps if the nuc was overheated in transit?

.

if they damaged in transit, bees clean them sooner and they do not stay in hive 2 weeks.

.

 

[Into the lions den]

if they damaged in transit, bees clean them sooner and they do not stay in hive 2 weeks.

.

Depends how damaged.................if it took a couple of days for the first few bees to come outside it could be bad. Like i said, we do not have enough info to offer any definitive opinion.

 

[DanBee]

As to Mite: Dan Bee your photo was a great help and yes it resembled the situation but ours was of a greater density of bees (one frame only) and more uniform age profile. So what to do – I imagine it’s a no brainer but to move to Apigurd with this Nuc earlier than anticipated. But, will continue feeding prior to this (another week?) as little enough in the line of stores. We had thought of reinforcing it with a frame of capped brood but it appears that this would be throwing good after bad in view of a) Varroa attack and b) Not enough Bee’s to ‘nurse’ it.

Difficult to say exactly what next without seeing the colony. Getting an experienced mentor in to look and advise would be the best advice. Photos of combs, brood, and bees might help. It could still have been very late stage chilled brood.

Adding emerging brood - as long as it's from a healthy colony - would be a good idea because presumably they will have suffered low mite damage and associated viral spread; this will bolster the population in the colony with several benefits. Feeding and varroa treatment can coincide if circumstances require as long as any stored feed remains with the colony for their use, not for human consumption.

With a solid floor, the easy way to sample is to use a thin card insert over the floor; depending on how your floor is attached this may be easy or difficult. Stickiness helps. When looking at the recorded drop vs. the numeric thresholds in the published information, remember that a small nuc resembles a colony in winter in population terms, or between one fifth and one tenth of a productive colony at this time of year. Again a seasoned beekeeper should be able to estimate what is there by looking at the colony, such mite drop recording might be unnecessary.

 

[SugarPlum]

I had a similar problem about a month ago. I thought they were starving, and I asked a more experienced beekeeper to have a look. They agreed. Nothing happened, and nothing happened. Today I checked and the whole hive has been wiped out by wax moth. The nasty webby stuff has completely glued all the frames together so I can't separate them. There was no sign of webbing 7 days ago. Sad.