Could there be too many beekeepers?

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Read what he said. It gets us money yes.......... but it is not always spent on us.... classic government.

PH
 
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too many beekeepers

i remember about 10 years ago (about the time i dropped out of local bka) seeing a map with all foul brood outbreaks and known hive locations and the two seemed to be linked.
 
Our village has 3.

1. 8-12 hives (when last seen)

2. 2 hives

3. Me...4 and hopefully counting...

The village is about a mile x a mile and a half...

Some of this is the 'Monkey see, monkey wanna do' brigade who then clutter the market with free jars for everyone or £3:50-ish/Lb on the gate.

Off piste a little, we have had our eye on a patch to put our bees and going to approach the owner soon. Drove past today to see police ribbon, cars, guards and been told there had been a murder there (not officially confirmed but police are everywhere).

Be careful people.
 
The figures all sound very interesting. Heres one problem I have come across, I have been around all our local shops to see if they would be interested in seelling my honey only to find most of them want to buy it for £2.50 per lb jar. I will not sell it to them for this price because of the work and the cost of jars and jaring. Ironically some of them say they are selling local honey, Ive checked the address on the jars and it from 50 miles away, this cant be classed as local can it.
Ive also realised theres always some one prepared to sell theres cheaper than the next person :beatdeadhorse5:
 
Dont think trading standards would like that, but wonder how far local is in the eyes of the trading standards?
 
:iagree:

WRITE them a letter bringing this to their attention.

Keep a copy.

Let the forum know.
 
Can you post back their answer as it would be nice to know.
 
There was undoubtedly far more colonies, both wild and managed( ish) at the beginning of the 20th century. We should remember that things have changed dramatically mind, both in terms of land use and the size of colonies. It was not uncommon for beekeepers to keep 40 or 50 skeps in one spot even in relatively poor beekeeping areas in West Wales, but then the colonies were much smaller, residing in skeps, and the forage was much better with more wild flowers( more hedges, wild spots and moores) and more cultivated crops of benefit to bees ( thinking of clovers and alfafa for horse forage).
But there's been some nonsense figures on rthis thread too;
200 beekeepers of a commercial persuasion could easily be quadrupled if you count sideliners and an estimate of only 17500 colonies is also probably much too low and 27500 is likewise much too high, its more likely to be in the middle, round the 22500 mark IMO. Most beekeepers are under the radar round my way for sure !
It would be interesting to hear how ITLD thinks the money allocated to beekeeping from the EU should be spent more effectively, I cant believe subsidised sugar or direct grants could be any fairer than spending it on disease prevention.
ps. I'm happy for "local" to be from anywhere in my country.
 
Dont think trading standards would like that, but wonder how far local is in the eyes of the trading standards?

Local is actually not a term with a strict definition as it is all rather relative. If you were in say, Leeds and were offered honey from Sheffield area you might with some justification say its not local, but compared to an offering from Hungary or Argentina it most certainly is local.

PH, not really in the business of pricking balloons, as there is a genuine basis for the statistics winker quoted. However they are historic figures based on estimates and are used for a reason by those with an agenda.

I am not the one at the sharp end of the considerations going on at a high level right now, ut a historic figure of live colonies in the UK some 60 years ago or so was put at 400-440K.

On the issue of honey prices and non availability in the shops, especially the multiples, there we have a big problem.

We are in economically straightened times, and customers have less to spend on honey. All premium honey types are currently in some degree of retreat in terms of their share of the sales pie. Not my words, the words of a contact high up in Rowse and in one of the multiples. The sector is in retreat, there was a decent crop out there in 2011, the beekeepers (for good reasons but with hindsight erroneously) kept their prices up at the artificially high, shortage fuelled 2010 levels, sales were dropping anyway, so the multiples, already having continuity of supply problems in 2010/11 simply delisted it as the number of units moving off the shelves dropped away to non viable. They asked for a price drop to re-invigour sales, but the beekeepers declined, in the belief the market would, sooner or later, need the honey at the level requested.

Now we have no multiple market worth speaking about for normal UK blossom honey (you are still OK if you can do specialities, especially non crystallising specialities) and hundreds of tonnes of last years still in stock and no serious buyers, even at a sharp discount from the prices earlier in the cycle. What is going to happen when 2012 crop lands on top of this? How do you get the multiples back and happy they can both have security of supply and that it will sell? Got 50 million tucked away to do a serious promotion effort? Got 10 years to do it (without sure success) by word of mouth and farmers markets?

Answer is simple I'm afraid, either 2012 has to be a crop failure or the price must readjust to its correct level, or perhaps even overadjust to get the clients buying again. Draw a graph of prices against years and draw a line through it. 2012 should settle, if average, in the region of 1.65/lb.

Of course there are many variables that could alter that that make crystal ball gazing a hazardous occupation, and the only real guarantee is that early season guesses MIGHT be approximate, but if accurate its just plain luck.
 
Ive also realised theres always some one prepared to sell theres cheaper than the next person

Are you really surprised. To me its all part of the "is that your best price" syndrome and TV programmes which encourage customers to haggle for a price lower than that the product is marked at.

As long as this is prevalent one of two things will happen. Either retailers will want to buy cheaper or they will raise their prices so that they have leeway to know something off for those who try to haggle.
 
i remember about 10 years ago (about the time i dropped out of local bka) seeing a map with all foul brood outbreaks and known hive locations and the two seemed to be linked.

Because no one knew where the hives that were spreading the disease were?:rolleyes:
 
Are you really surprised. To me its all part of the "is that your best price" syndrome and TV programmes which encourage customers to haggle for a price lower than that the product is marked at.

As long as this is prevalent one of two things will happen. Either retailers will want to buy cheaper or they will raise their prices so that they have leeway to know something off for those who try to haggle.

Ive never found a shop in the country that sells food products were you will be able to buy it for less than the marked price. I'll have to try that one when buying sugar in autum
 
Ive never found a shop in the country that sells food products were you will be able to buy it for less than the marked price. I'll have to try that one when buying sugar in autum

I will admit that for some reason people are less prepared to ask for "your best price" on food products.

The fact remains the public want to but as cheaply as possible so the retailers want to but as cheaply as possible.

You need to allow for an at least 100% mark up by the retailer depending on things like are they in a high rent area, number of staff etc.
 
To me its all part of the "is that your best price" syndrome and TV programmes which encourage customers to haggle for a price lower than that the product is marked at.

Indeed; we persuaded a very small PO and shop to stock honey - gave them good promotional stuff for inside and outside - promised to buy any back that didn't sell as long as tamper-proof sound - honey sold reasonably well - good for next year? Read on.

Now, we see poorly presented comb honey from five or so miles away as that beekeeper has been told they're selling ours; less than 100Lb ( a veritable Klondyke!! :rolleyes:) and so brought in theirs (they have lived in area for 30 years never went near shop before.

Now owners are saying (with a silly smile) they'll have to have lower buying-in prices, what with all this competition.

So much for brand loyalty, but it is why businesses fail.
 
But there's been some nonsense figures on rthis thread too;
200 beekeepers of a commercial persuasion could easily be quadrupled if you count sideliners and an estimate of only 17500 colonies is also probably much too low and 27500 is likewise much too high, its more likely to be in the middle, round the 22500 mark IMO. Most beekeepers are under the radar round my way for sure !

Actually the 175000 already contains a generous allowance for those not members of anything. It also includes over 300 beekeepers as being of a commercial persuasion. Even in the BFA the lions share of members are sideliners. There are probably under 50 full time bee entities in the UK.

It would be interesting to hear how ITLD thinks the money allocated to beekeeping from the EU should be spent more effectively, I cant believe subsidised sugar or direct grants could be any fairer than spending it on disease prevention.

What ILTD thinks is beside the point. The EU money is available under several headings, the UK claims under only two. All are only eligible under the 'improvement of production and marketing' umbrella, and of the provisions the uk only takes its share under 'technical assistance' and 'control of varroasis. (Its EU Regulation 1234/2007 btw if you feel like ploughing through it all)

Specifically EXCLUDED are measures related to disease, OTHER than varroasis (so AFB and EFB work NOT covered)..........and such work should be under national funding. Also a no no is substitution of EU funding for national funding in pre existing nationally funded projects or measures. The EU money was for NEW items, primarily related to the production and marketing of apicultural products.

That the UK snaffled the lot for the NBU and inspectors is not in dispute. They were pre existing programmes and should not have been funded this way. Use for disease prevention/detection was not the intent. Astrid Lulling, known as the mother of beekeeping over in Brussels, has plenty to say about this subject, and basically accuses several countries, including the UK, of theft.

It just aint how its happening. The UK should be paying for the NBU and the inspections, and the EU money (which the UK would have to match fund too) should be for extra things.

HUGE and complex subject.



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