Comb storage

[Beesnaturally]

I have .
Having once scraped and cleaned supers and broods on the patio I had 1000's of bees , wasps etc and the noise and traffic akin to a swarm. I stopped my work.

But were there lots of dead bees around afterwards?

 

[fian]

what has that got to do with encouraging robbing and cross contamination with bees attracted from elsewhere (not from one's own colonies which you know are healthy)?
Just accept the fact that your advice was bad advice and the practice of leaving equipment out in the open 'for the bees to clean' is bad practice, and stop trying to deflect.

If open feeding is inadvisable because it is a meeting point for bees from different colonies (susceptible to cross contamination) you should also consider this when installing a common water source.
It is also a bit "optimistic" to say that all the hives in my apiary are healthy but without performing any analysis and only based on "apply the treatment for" or do not have "symptoms of"
Finally, keeping moist supers and arranging them according to need and not according to origin is an equally risky measure or are there no diseases that are transmitted by honey? A diseased colony does not produce honey, but a colony that has produced honey does not mean that it cannot subsequently collapse as a result of induced disease. Are you completely sure that a wet rear from said colony is free of said disease?

 

[fian]

I agree with this. Top of at least some the disease avenues by a long shot must be robbing out and clearing out, taking both live bees and bee food from the brood area back to the nest. Its for this reason that I think hives should be attended through the autumn, winter and spring months, and any dead ones sealed and/or bought in.

I suspect open feeding of sticky frames from _above_ the nest is a way lower risk; but its still one I don't take. All sticky frames in their original boxes go back on the same hives for cleaning. I don't feed any other honey to my bees.

That leaves robbing of other peoples' and wild nests being the larger risk.

Picking up something nasty from floral sources is to my mind a relatively very remote possibility. With the exception of varroa mites - I can easily see that happening. These are justmy own thoughts.

I understand your thought and it could well be reduced to:
Avoid any handling that poses a risk of contagion.
What I find curious is that someone imposes more restrictions on honey than on water, or that at the beginning of the season they do not segregate the colonies of an apiary based on their strength, displacing and joining those of the same condition per apiary. Subsequently, inspections could be scheduled in a systematic way since the starting conditions are the same for each apiary, and failures are also observed by comparison

 

[Erichalfbee]

@fian
Are you trying to justify your practice of allowing your supers to be open cleaned or trying to convert beekeepers here to the same practice?
It seems nobody here can persuade you that you shouldn’t be doing it… so be it.
Beginners have already been warned that the practice is severely frowned on here in the U.K. which is the only important aspect of this whole thread.
Is there really anything else to say?

 

[fian]

@fian
Are you trying to justify your practice of allowing your supers to be open cleaned or trying to convert beekeepers here to the same practice?
It seems nobody here can persuade you that you shouldn’t be doing it… so be it.
Beginners have already been warned that the practice is severely frowned on here in the U.K. which is the only important aspect of this whole thread.
Is there really anything else to say?

Neither one thing nor the other, I want members of the public to be critical enough with the decisions they make, to make them see beyond the general principles of commonly accepted management.
On the other hand, I try to understand why storing humid supers is a more correct sanitary option, knowing that they are more susceptible to wax moths or the fermentative action of yeasts and molds.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

If open feeding is inadvisable because it is a meeting point for bees from different colonies (susceptible to cross contamination) you should also consider this when installing a common water source.

don't talk such utter rot. You don't get the feeding frenzy with a water source as you would get if you suddely dump an open source of honey accessible to the bees
For one thing I know of noone in this county (or even country) that feels the misguided urge to supply a 'water source' for the bees anyway - there is plenty available naturally

 

[Newbeeneil]

don't talk such utter rot. For one thing, you don't get the feeding frenzy with a water source as you would get if you suddely dump an open source of honey accessible to the bees
For one thing I know of noone in this county (or even country) that feels the misguided urge to supply a 'water source' for the bees anyway - there is plenty available naturally

Yes I agree even in the unusually dry period we had this year my bees had no trouble finding water.

 

[Antipodes]

Neither one thing nor the other, I want members of the public to be critical enough with the decisions they make, to make them see beyond the general principles of commonly accepted management.
On the other hand, I try to understand why storing humid supers is a more correct sanitary option, knowing that they are more susceptible to wax moths or the fermentative action of yeasts and molds.

Leaving aside the issue of disease spread, I believe there is a risk with any frenzied open feeding, of bees fighting (which can rapidly escalate particularly in a dearth), and then there is a risk to any person unprotected within a fairly wide circle of being stung. The entire apiary can get pretty edgy.

 

[Antipodes]

For one thing I know of noone in this county (or even country) that feels the misguided urge to supply a 'water source' for the bees anyway - there is plenty available naturally

I'm not sure how effective it is, but the law about a water source here is to do with the swimming pools. Sydney has had 2400mm (94 inches) of rain this year....so it's a pretty wet place.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Neither one thing nor the other, I want members of the public to be critical enough with the decisions they make,

So you want to educate members of the public?
You do realise you are talking to beekeepers?

 

[Beesnaturally]

I understand your thought and it could well be reduced to:
Avoid any handling that poses a risk of contagion.
What I find curious is that someone imposes more restrictions on honey than on water, or that at the beginning of the season they do not segregate the colonies of an apiary based on their strength, displacing and joining those of the same condition per apiary. Subsequently, inspections could be scheduled in a systematic way since the starting conditions are the same for each apiary, and failures are also observed by comparison

There are many ways to keep bees, and many different sizes of operations. Things that might suit the methods of one often don't suit the methods of others. Some people do rebalance their apiaries. I don't think water is seen as anything like the likely contagion risk of honey - whether that is right or wrong, ever, or often, I don't know - but my guess would be the perception is probably correct. There's not much you can do about it though, unless you want to arrange for running water through more or less still ponds.

I don't think inspectors have any problem with looking at different sized hives at the same time. I doubt they'd want their visits scheduled by beekeepers either.

 

[Beesnaturally]

Yes I agree even in the unusually dry period we had this year my bees had no trouble finding water.

I don't know if mine did or not: they certainly appreciated the water I put out for them. Perhaps it was just closer than other sources.

 

[fian]

no hables tan tonterías. Por un lado, no obtienes el frenesí de alimentación con una fuente de agua como lo harías si de repente arrojas una fuente abierta de miel accesible para las abejas.
Por un lado, no conozco a nadie en este condado (o incluso en el país) que sienta la necesidad equivocada de proporcionar una "fuente de agua" para las abejas de todos los modos: hay mucha disponible de forma natural.

Yes I agree even in the unusually dry period we had this year my bees had no trouble finding water.

And how have you verified that only the bees from your apiary came to drink?
If an external apiary needs water that is also in the radius of your apiary. You don't think there can be contact and in the case of infection at the source of transmission?
If varroa transmission has been reported during flowering, what makes you think that the water supply source of your apiary is free of varroa virus infection as a vector?

 

[fian]

So you want to educate members of the public?
You do realise you are talking to beekeepers?

What's wrong with a beekeeper questioning the handling he does?

 

[Newbeeneil]

And how have you verified that only the bees from your apiary came to drink?
If an external apiary needs water that is also in the radius of your apiary. You don't think there can be contact and in the case of infection at the source of transmission?
If varroa transmission has been reported during flowering, what makes you think that the water supply source of your apiary is free of varroa virus infection as a vector?

Are you really in the same world as me?
As everyone has said here the problem with open feeding is the frenzy from bees traveling from local colonies to access a free for all feed of HONEY!
I have never seen this on the waterbutt or abandoned buckets that have collected rainwater in one of my apiaries.
The chances of bees travelling more than 100m for water is minimal but they would travel kilometres for free honey!

 

[fian]

There are many ways to keep bees, and many different sizes of operations. Things that might suit the methods of one often don't suit the methods of others. Some people do rebalance their apiaries. I don't think water is seen as anything like the likely contagion risk of honey - whether that is right or wrong, ever, or often, I don't know - but my guess would be the perception is probably correct. There's not much you can do about it though, unless you want to arrange for running water through more or less still ponds.

I don't think inspectors have any problem with looking at different sized hives at the same time. I doubt they'd want their visits scheduled by beekeepers either.

Because no one has bothered to analyze it, or even to put water (in times of drought or high ambient temperatures) in a feeder in a similar way to winter preparation.

 

[fian]

Are you really in the same world as me?
As everyone has said here the problem with open feeding is the frenzy from bees traveling from local colonies to access a free for all feed of HONEY!
I have never seen this on the waterbutt or abandoned buckets that have collected rainwater in one of my apiaries.
The chances of bees travelling more than 100m for water is minimal but they would travel kilometres for free honey!

The latter is a completely free affirmation. The bees will travel the necessary distance to obtain what they are looking for, be it water, pollen or nectar (honey/syrup), in fact, in case of absence they will take what is closest to it, although it may be harmful.

 

[JamezF]

I would have thought that a water source visited by bees who ingest it and carry it back to the hive where ultimately it is unlikely to leave in a form that would attract another bee (as vapour or faeces, basically) was likely to carry a far lower potential for carrying/transmitting viruses or bacteria than honey that has been passed from bee to bee any number of times, moved around the hive coming into contact with multiple cells for storage and been present in the hive for weeks or even months.

I'm not at all sure therefore that comparing the two situations could be considered valid.

In addition, honey bees are quite happy to collect water from running water such as streams where one might expect there to be a good chance that any virus or bacterium transferred to the water from the bee would get washed away without having any chance to come into contact with another bee.

James

 

[fian]

I would have thought that a water source visited by bees who ingest it and carry it back to the hive where ultimately it is unlikely to leave in a form that would attract another bee (as vapour or faeces, basically) was likely to carry a far lower potential for carrying/transmitting viruses or bacteria than honey that has been passed from bee to bee any number of times, moved around the hive coming into contact with multiple cells for storage and been present in the hive for weeks or even months.

I'm not at all sure therefore that comparing the two situations could be considered valid.

In addition, honey bees are quite happy to collect water from running water such as streams where one might expect there to be a good chance that any virus or bacterium transferred to the water from the bee would get washed away without having any chance to come into contact with another bee.

James

As if the water was not used at least in three points.
A. Dilution of honey
B. Manufacture of royal jelly.
C. Evaporation to lower the temperature of the nest.
In the critical situation of high temperatures/drought, point c becomes relevant by being able to spread the virus/bacteria housed in microdrops of steam throughout the entire colony .
The last point is another free statement without any scientific endorsement.

 

[fian]

If humans have given ourselves a safe supply system outside of natural sources, if in other livestock activities we provide animals with water under control, my question is why would be different in beekeeping.
If open feeding is a bad practice, then we must change the water management system in beekeeping.