Colony died off - honey still safe to eat?

[BernardBlack]

So, my mouldy hive has died off. Probably within the last few days to a week. Not surprised to be honest.

Trickled oxalic acid just over 2 weeks ago, and seen it was struggling then.

I’ve taken the supers off. Thought I’d extract the honey that’s there. I’m assuming it’s still safe to consume? Just asking mainly because of the recent oxalic acid treatment.

(PS: I had to do some trickling in super as bees had moved up there)

 

[MartinL]

So, my mouldy hive has died off. Probably within the last few days to a week.
Trickled oxalic acid just over 2 weeks ago,
Thought I’d extract the honey
I’m assuming it’s still safe to consume?

You seem to have given us the answer.

You've poured a notorious poison over something you're now thinking of eating,

or worse want to sell to someone else???????????

 

[For want of a better word]

You seem to have given us the answer.

You've poured a notorious poison over something you're now thinking of eating,

or worse want to sell to someone else???????????

SUGAR..... !

 

[madasafish]

You seem to have given us the answer.

You've poured a notorious poison over something you're now thinking of eating,

or worse want to sell to someone else???????????

AT least teh eater will not suffer ..... from varroa

 

[Beefriendly]

You've poured a notorious poison over something you're now thinking of eating,

Oxalic acid is a natural constituent of honey.

If OP is in any doubt about any residues left from the ectopic treatment; wash the sealed combs and dry before extracting.

Given the LD 50 of OA for humans is around 0.6g/kg body weight I don't think much harm will come to you even if you don't wash the combs.

 

[fatshark]

Why risk it? Beefriendly is correct, but I wouldn't do it, even for my own consumption. Feed it back to the bees. The instructions to not treat when honey supers are present, or not to harvest honey during treatment are there for a reason. I'd not want to argue on some technicality that it was below the LD50, so therefore OK, even if someone came back just complaining of an 'off' taste.

 

[BernardBlack]

SUGAR..... !

Oxalic acid is sugar?

 

[BernardBlack]

Why risk it? Beefriendly is correct, but I wouldn't do it, even for my own consumption. Feed it back to the bees. The instructions to not treat when honey supers are present, or not to harvest honey during treatment are there for a reason. I'd not want to argue on some technicality that it was below the LD50, so therefore OK, even if someone came back just complaining of an 'off' taste.

There was some staining on some frames. I was reluctant to give it to the other hive as it may have been nosema and didn’t want it spreading.

 

[For want of a better word]

Oxalic acid is sugar?

What did you make up your OA trickle with?

I was being ironic...
... however perhaps what the Beefoolology Professor of the University of the frozen norf did not mention was the sublethal action of OA or the precautionary principle upon which the directive not to ingest the lovverly stuff ( OA not sugar) is based???

Thread will now drift to discuss matchsticks and their use to hold open eyelids etc etc etc!

 

[BernardBlack]

What did you make up your OA trickle with?

I was being ironic...
... however perhaps what the Beefoolology Professor of the University of the frozen norf did not mention was the sublethal action of OA or the precautionary principle upon which the directive not to ingest the lovverly stuff ( OA not sugar) is based???

Thread will now drift to discuss matchsticks and their use to hold open eyelids etc etc etc!

I didn’t. I got some ready made from my association.

 

[Beefriendly]

the precautionary principle upon which the directive not to ingest the lovverly stuff ( OA not sugar) is based???

Best stop eating honey then...
You been on the lager tops again?
You are coming across as an aggressive offensive . Something you tend to do when slightly puddled.
Personally I just think you are a

 

[BernardBlack]

You seem to have given us the answer.

You've poured a notorious poison over something you're now thinking of eating,

or worse want to sell to someone else???????????

Was hoping to consume it myself.

Doesn’t look a good idea though given the responses.

I’d be reluctant to feed to my other hive as there was some staining on the frames. My other hive seems to be doing well, and don’t want to risk their wellbeing with a possible nosema infection with these frames.

Seems a shame to dump all those frames of honey though

 

[For want of a better word]

Was hoping to consume it myself.

Doesn’t look a good idea though given the responses.

I’d be reluctant to feed to my other hive as there was some staining on the frames. My other hive seems to be doing well, and don’t want to risk their wellbeing with a possible nosema infection with these frames.

Seems a shame to dump all those frames of honey though

No point in jossin' with Beef... seems to lack the Celtic sence or ironic humour this evening... Jupiter probably not aligned or something?


You could brew it up into a mead... the alcohol produced is much preferable to the weak northern beers!

 

[For want of a better word]

Best stop eating honey then...
You been on the lager tops again?
You are coming across as an aggressive offensive . Something you tend to do when slightly puddled.
Personally I just think you are a

Nice!
What a pleasant person you are.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Was hoping to consume it myself.

Doesn’t look a good idea though given the responses.

I’d be reluctant to feed to my other hive as there was some staining on the frames. My other hive seems to be doing well, and don’t want to risk their wellbeing with a possible nosema infection with these frames.

Seems a shame to dump all those frames of honey though

To reassure yourself or put you off the idea of eating it, do a few sums to try to estimate how much OA (grammes) could be in the weight of honey in the frames (kilogrammes). You'll have to make assumptions about weight of honey exposed to OA, weight of OA poured over frames, percentage of that weight of OA that might have been removed by the bees. You'll end up with your best estimate of the percentage of added OA could be in the honey. I'd be surprised if it was even in the taste-detectable range but you do the sums and see what you get.

Read this - it may reassure you.

CVB

 

[fatshark]

Or just treat with acetic acid to kill the Nosema and use for the bees.

 

[Angularity]

Oxalic acid is a natural constituent of honey.

If OP is in any doubt about any residues left from the ectopic treatment; wash the sealed combs and dry before extracting.

Given the LD 50 of OA for humans is around 0.6g/kg body weight I don't think much harm will come to you even if you don't wash the combs.

That LD50 figure means that if 10 average Europeople of 60kg each consumed 36g of oxalic acid, only half of them would be dead by the end of the experiment.

The derived no effect level for long term oral exposure (putting the honey on your toast every morning) is 63mg/kg, so just under 4 grammes before there is an observable effect, or roundabout the amount you put into the hive.

https://echa.europa.eu/registration-dossier/-/registered-dossier/14786/7/1

Personally I'd rather eat glyphosate.

 

[birdsandbees]

oh no! anyone that use OA and eats Honey from their bees is going die or kill someone!

Better warn the local greengrocers about the hazards of selling Rhubarb, Spinach, Beets, Swiss chard etc, all high in Oxalic Acid up to 900mg per serving!

Excerpt from link provided by CVB

...resulted in no relevant changes in the oxalic acid content of honey produced the following year, compared with honey samples from untreated colonies from the same location. The range of oxalic acid content in honey was 5–68mg/kg in oxalic acid treated and 5–65mg/kg in untreated colonies. The oxalic acid content of the honey was positively correlated with its electrical conductivity and thus with its original nectar or honeydew source.

 

[BernardBlack]

oh no! anyone that use OA and eats Honey from their bees is going die or kill someone!

Better warn the local greengrocers about the hazards of selling Rhubarb, Spinach, Beets, Swiss chard etc, all high in Oxalic Acid up to 900mg per serving!

Excerpt from link provided by CVB

...resulted in no relevant changes in the oxalic acid content of honey produced the following year, compared with honey samples from untreated colonies from the same location. The range of oxalic acid content in honey was 5–68mg/kg in oxalic acid treated and 5–65mg/kg in untreated colonies. The oxalic acid content of the honey was positively correlated with its electrical conductivity and thus with its original nectar or honeydew source.

My worry was that the oxalic acid was trickled 2 weeks ago. Just worried it might not have been enough time has passed for the bees to do what they do with it.

 

[fatshark]

Excerpt from link provided by CVB

...resulted in no relevant changes in the oxalic acid content of honey produced the following year, compared with honey samples from untreated colonies from the same location. The range of oxalic acid content in honey was 5–68mg/kg in oxalic acid treated and 5–65mg/kg in untreated colonies. The oxalic acid content of the honey was positively correlated with its electrical conductivity and thus with its original nectar or honeydew source.

This reference is quoted time and time again (I think it was from a NZ study if I recollect) .... it refers to dribbling in autumn and testing again in the following Spring.

Is there any data showing OA levels the day, week or month after sublimation or trickling? This is what's being discussed here and in all the questions about whether it's "safe to vape" when there are supers on, or if the supers are removed for one day or whatever.

I'm not aware of any ... is anyone?