Colony Cut Out / Removal / Collection

[XYZ]

Hi all,

I am hoping this year to do some cut-outs/removals on top of swarm collection. I have already been contacted about two possible colonies situation within a building. Based on photos and discussions it will involve cutting out plasterboard/plywood and collecting the bees.

I would of course full assess the situation beforehand and make a plan for containing everything, minimising mess and disruption etc.

My approach would be to have a skilled tradesman with me to help ensure the removal of plasterboard/plywood sections is neat and properly replaced afterwards.

What I want to know is if there is any insurance required? Do I need any BBKA certs or anything to make sure this is all completely legal and I'm covered? Should I draft an agreement between myself and the client?

Also, if anyone could offer any pointers as to how to price such a job I would be interested. I'm thinking just to quote based on hourly rate with a little contingency.

 

[enrico]

Have you done any yet? They are a nightmare and I have stopped doing them. However careful you are honey gets everywhere. Good luck with them though. I hope it works. I never had any insurance and never charged.
E

 

[XYZ]

Have you done any yet? They are a nightmare and I have stopped doing them. However careful you are honey gets everywhere. Good luck with them though. I hope it works. I never had any insurance and never charged.
E

No I've watched countless videos of them though and fancy giving it a go myself.

I'll do my homework beforehand of course - this thread hopefully providing some gems.

 

[Poly Hive]

It's messy, unpleasant, and fraught with issues. The biggest problem is until you have got in you have no idea, and cannot know, what is actually going on.

Bugger videos, its a horrible business and I would strongly advise against taking it on.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

It's messy, unpleasant, and fraught with issues. The biggest problem is until you have got in you have no idea, and cannot know, what is actually going on.

Bugger videos, its a horrible business and I would strongly advise against taking it on.

PH

Not worth the hassle if all you want is the bees...

BBKA insurance is at best minimal.

Basic construction industry insurance is absolutely essential, expect something in the order of £6K per annum.

Many household policies would cover work of this kind, get home owner to check before starting any work.

Last removal job a builder ( and beekeeper) friend did to remove bees from a soffit at second floor level cost the customer £2500, but that did include repair and hire of scaffolding.

Stick to bees in ladies bushes!

Chons da

 

[Millet]

You might want to read up and watch videos of bee vacuums and how to make one..i was supposed to do one last year in a disused water drain man hole cover but the farmers uncle who also runs the farm was being a bit of a turd so i sacked the idea..this would have been a easy one but them cut outs look a nightmare to me..good luck though if you go ahead with it..

 

[Newbeeneil]

I have done a few and although messy they are ok as long as the access is from the outside of the building.
As far as insurance is concerned, your BBKA insurance will not cover you for taking a building apart, (a good reason for having an insured builder with you) or even collecting a swarm above 3m from the ground!

 

[XYZ]

Good shout Neil, I'm aiming to pair up with an insured builder.

I am expecting cut-outs to be challenging but they are so interesting to me. I'm up for the challenge.

Steve that's a great idea on the bee vac. I'll add that to my DIY list.

 

[enrico]

The most important thing you need is bins. For good comb, bad comb, crap, two full of water for washing. I did one in a ceiling and my suit was covered in honey. There was so much and it was lime. It just ran everywhere. It all had to be pressure hosed afterwards. Luckily it was a building project so that was possible. I did another in an old mill where the mill wheel gear would have been housed. Even with scaffolding it was a challenge. I ran out of five gallon containers. It was massive. I started at the front and it just kept going backwards. I had a proper bee vac but I filled that. You have to be prepared for any possibility. You get to the point that everything you touch is sticky. It seems so simple to band them into empty frames but with honey everywhere and alot of angry bees it can become a real nightmare. I wish you all the luck in the world. Charge as much as you can get, it still won't pay for your time but if you get good at it you will be a useful person to know. There is one guy on here who does brilliant chimney cutouts. I admire him. Can't remember who it is. Can anyone help?
Good luck
E

 

[pargyle]

Well it isn't me .. I've done a couple - one in a compost bin (That was a fairly easy one - the bees were well behaved, most of the comb was attached to the underside of lid and what wasn't had broken off and was on top of the compost) - I was still covered in honey by the time I'd done. The second was in the cavity wall of a timber garden shed .. the bees were vile, there was a huge amount of comb stuck to both the inner and outer wall of the shed. Everywhere was honey dripping and the bees were all over it. We had to virtually dismantle one side of the shed. The queen was nowhere to be seen, the bees insisted on returning to the shed wall - I didn't have a bee vac and I'm not sure it would have helped anyway. I would echo everyone else's words. Took forever, there was honey everywhere, the bees that were collected were not worth a light - more trouble than it was worth. Give me a swarm in a bush or on a branch anytime. As for those who take ceilings down and bricks out of walls and bees out of chimneys - I have nothing but untold admiration for them.

 

[XYZ]

I can appreciate there will be some nightmare projects. I won't make blanket decisions to accept all jobs. I'll be looking only at jobs where I can get to them easily enough by lifting floorboards or cutting plasterboard.

If it comes to brickwork or working at heights it's a straight up no.

 

[enrico]

Please let us know how you get on.
E

 

[ericbeaumont]

The biggest problem is until you have got in you have no idea, and cannot know, what is actually going on.

True, although that's usually part of the attraction.

As Enrico suggested, you have to be prepared for any possibility and the most important thing you need is bins. For good comb, bad comb, crap, two full of water for washing.

What he's making clear is that a lot of gear is needed to cover every eventuality. Some that I've found useful: a large deep work tray (found a use at last for a Thorne uncapping tray) for cutting up comb to band into frames; decorating sheets; plastic sheeting; a telescopic ladder; a multi tool with tiny saw blades for cutting without too much damage; big hammers and a bolster for making significant damage, and sundry knives, drills, woodscrews, pliers and so on; floorboard saw; dustpan and brush; broom; vacuum broodbox or nucbox (buy from Steve on eBay if you can't make one); tomato ketchup (you'll be there so long you'll need to send for fish and chips); another (paid) practical person; an exceedingly large vehicle to cart away the whole caboodle; a post-job pub with proper beer on tap (this will slip down well).

I charge £25/hour but won't give a real idea of the fee unless the nest location and size can be established pretty well in advance (as PH said, this is difficult). Commercial customers don't worry too much as they're usually determined to save the bees at any cost. We had one from a housing association: Edwardian terrace, bees up near the roof for years; pesties had done occasional half-arsed powder jobs whenever a tenant complained; HA put up scaffolding before consulting a beekeeper; scaffolding was superfluous as we went through the front bedroom ceiling; took 11 dusty hours late in the year with a beevac: textbook cutting of comb, found the queen and left the teenagers bedroom cleaner than it was at the start. After all that, the bees died out two months later. Probable cost? £2k+, what with the scaffolding, (false) asbestos alert technician, building repairs, internal repairs, office time, two beekeepers...

I've always had good bee behaviour on these jobs and never needed much smoke, but as said earlier, it's usually complex, sweaty, lengthy and tiring work that should not be done to get bonus bees. Communication with the customer is paramount to let them know the cost of progress, and don't be afraid to suggest termination if all else is unworkable; have a licenced pest controller up your sleeve who knows how to do the job legally.

Insurance? Hmmm.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Hi japey, I've been asked but declined as my swarm collection is more than enough and I bet you find that to be the same for you.
Good luck whatever you do, and its all experience after all.

 

[philipm]

One thing to be aware off is that the bees won't be happy so will sting anyone nearby.Its a big draw for people to watch whats going on they don't see the danger until it too late.

 

[ericbeaumont]

One thing to be aware off is that the bees won't be happy so will sting anyone nearby.

Not experienced any stinging on cut-outs, Philip: bees mooch about wondering what the heck's going on; no dive-bombing either; maybe I've been lucky.