Cleaning Poly hives after Efb

[Foxylad]

So, I’ve had a Efb outbreak in one apiary. I have killed the bees and burnt and buried and the contaminated hives.

I am now scorching all wooden hive parts.

But I have a number of plastic and poly nucs and full sized hives. That still need cleaning. These hive had Efb, so I really like to make sure there clean before using them again next year.

Laurence has a video where he’s dipping his poly boxes.
But I’m unsure of the ratios of sodium Hypochlorite and if it’s the best method.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

 

[Wilco]

Can't advise on concentration of hypochlorite but you could try something like anigene HLD4V. It's an approved disinfectant for viruses, funghi and bacteria including mycobacteria and, I think, spore formers. Concentration details will be on the bottle but make sure you also follow the contact times recommended. Most disinfectants need to be allowed a certain amount of time to have full effect- a few seconds then a wipe down just won't cut it.

It's probably worth getting all the propolis off first which will be a pain. Soda crystals work and I believe others on here have used cillit bang to good effect.

NBU should be able to advise on this though.

 

[Newbeeneil]

So, I’ve had a Efb outbreak in one apiary. I have killed the bees and burnt and buried and the contaminated hives.

I am now scorching all wooden hive parts.

But I have a number of plastic and poly nucs and full sized hives. That still need cleaning. These hive had Efb, so I really like to make sure there clean before using them again next year.

Laurence has a video where he’s dipping his poly boxes.
But I’m unsure of the ratios of sodium Hypochlorite and if it’s the best method.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

This is the go to advice for hive cleaning.

https://www.nationalbeeunit.com/ass...6_Hive_Cleaning_and_Sterilisation_english.pdf

 

[Foxylad]

Thank you Wilco, NBU do advise on dipping with Sodium Hypochlorite.

I have a 150l tank, in Laurence’s video. The poly hives come out like new.

 

[Foxylad]

Thats the leaflet I’ve read, it’s a bit unclear on the best way to clean poly.

 

[Foxylad]

 

[Newbeeneil]

I think Laurence has his maths wrong. The NBU recommends a 0.5% solution not 3% as he mentions in the video which means a 5-1 dilution of household bleach would give you the 0.5% which is what I’ve always used in a 50 litre container.
His use of 30% sodium hypochlorite probably meant he used a solution 10 times more potent! No wonder the boxes came out like new!!!!!

Edit. The NBU leaflet also says that the only effective method of sterilisation for AFB is sodium hypochlorite whereas Laurence says it will have no effect. Maybe Laurence needs to read the NBU advice?

 

[Foxylad]

The part i am unclear about is the nbu recommendation is 3% sodium hypochlorite. The product is 15%. So how much product do I need in a 150l tank. And how many hives will it do before I need to change the solution?

 

[Newbeeneil]

To make up 150 litre with 15% sodium hypochlorite you will need approx 5lt mixed with 145ltr of water.( I think )
Because you are adding no extra fluid into the mix while dipping the boxes the concentration will not diminish so the only time you need to add more solution is when it no longer covers the boxes!

 

[Foxylad]

Great thank you.

 

[JamezF]

The part i am unclear about is the nbu recommendation is 3% sodium hypochlorite. The product is 15%. So how much product do I need in a 150l tank. And how many hives will it do before I need to change the solution?

Hmmm. I'm not sure I agree with Neil, but it's late and my maths may be wrong.

When I buy hypochlorite it comes in 25 litre containers and I think they're 15% (I can't check at this time of day, but it sounds vaguely familiar) then that's 3.75 litres of active chemical per container. In a 150 litre tank, a 3% solution requires 4.5 litres of the active chemical, so you'd need 30 litres of the supplied hypochlorite solution topped off with water.

Given Neil's volumes, 5 litres of 15% gives you 0.75 litres of active ingredient. Made up to 150 litres that comes out as 0.5% for me.

I'm still struggling with the after-effects of Covid and quite prepared to be wrong though

James

 

[Foxylad]

The one I’ve purchased comes in 5l tubs. It’s £32 for 20l. If I need 30l of the stuff, it’s getting expensive!
I’ve cleaned boxes before with caustic soda. Which is far cheaper but needs heating. An added cost as I don’t have gas ring. I do have a barrel I can heat. I’m trying to avoid boiling caustic soda, as it’s hard to get right and not very pleasant.

 

[JamezF]

I can't make the numbers work out any other way at the moment I'm afraid. That said, I've spent the evening trying to design 3D-printable connectors for supports for butterfly netting to use on my brassicas, and given that I'm not a regular user of CAD packages my brain is starting to ooze out of my ears.

Thirty litres would undeniably be costly. Probably cheaper to buy a new poly box if you only have the one.

I've just cottoned on to the fact that Neil suggests using a 0.5% solution, in which case his figures look to be correct for that to me.

After searching online a bit I'm thinking that the concentrations used for cleaning use in dairies are considerably lower than suggested by the NBU (barely even a tenth of the 0.5% Neil suggests) and the contact times recommended are still only a few minutes. I don't understand why there should be such a difference unless the NBU are being massively over-cautious.

James

 

[Newbeeneil]

I can't make the numbers work out any other way at the moment I'm afraid. That said, I've spent the evening trying to design 3D-printable connectors for supports for butterfly netting to use on my brassicas, and given that I'm not a regular user of CAD packages my brain is starting to ooze out of my ears.

Thirty litres would undeniably be costly. Probably cheaper to buy a new poly box if you only have the one.

I've just cottoned on to the fact that Neil suggests using a 0.5% solution, in which case his figures look to be correct for that to me.

After searching online a bit I'm thinking that the concentrations used for cleaning use in dairies are considerably lower than suggested by the NBU (barely even a tenth of the 0.5% Neil suggests) and the contact times recommended are still only a few minutes. I don't understand why there should be such a difference unless the NBU are being massively over-cautious.

James

0.5% is not my suggestion, it’s what the NBU recommends in their notes on sterilisation of poly boxes as I posted above.
If you watch the BMH video, for some reason Laurence has used 3% which I think he has got from the fact that most household bleach has a 3% concentration of sodium hypochlorite.

 

[polymath]

So, I’ve had a Efb outbreak in one apiary. I have killed the bees and burnt and buried and the contaminated hives.

I am now scorching all wooden hive parts.

But I have a number of plastic and poly nucs and full sized hives. That still need cleaning. These hive had Efb, so I really like to make sure there clean before using them again next year.

Laurence has a video where he’s dipping his poly boxes.
But I’m unsure of the ratios of sodium Hypochlorite and if it’s the best method.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Really sorry to hear your news. In Surrey there is a trial of destruction of poly hives with BDI cover this year. The challenge with poly is each piece should be soaked for 20 minutes in a tank first in bleach to the correct mixture and then ideally in soda to clean. So for each piece 2 x soaks of 20 minutes in a tank big enough to hold it under. I have taken an old wheely bin, drilled two holes across the top so i can put poles through then push the poly under, put some wood on top and then the poles. It works well, but the whole process is very slow of course as you can only probably soak one brood box, super at a time.

 

[Wilco]

I can't make the numbers work out any other way at the moment I'm afraid. That said, I've spent the evening trying to design 3D-printable connectors for supports for butterfly netting to use on my brassicas, and given that I'm not a regular user of CAD packages my brain is starting to ooze out of my ears.

Thirty litres would undeniably be costly. Probably cheaper to buy a new poly box if you only have the one.

I've just cottoned on to the fact that Neil suggests using a 0.5% solution, in which case his figures look to be correct for that to me.

After searching online a bit I'm thinking that the concentrations used for cleaning use in dairies are considerably lower than suggested by the NBU (barely even a tenth of the 0.5% Neil suggests) and the contact times recommended are still only a few minutes. I don't understand why there should be such a difference unless the NBU are being massively over-cautious.

James

Try Microsoft 3D builder. It's free, quite basic and can output .stl files. I got on with it much better than several of the free online systems.

 

[Garry R]

I have poly hives but only the brood boxes and and supers. I have used a combination of bleach and Cillit Band black mould remover on the poly boxes and give them a good scrubbing when they are routinely cleaned, I have not had EFB thus far (but it is in Somerset) so never cleaned them for that. Making your own wooden OMF floors is cheap and easy but another reason for using OMF/wooden floors is I reckon that is where the muck and rubbish lands and lies before the bees remove it so I am able to scorch these being wood, Ditto crownboards. I change the and scorch the floors twice in the year. You don't need double the kit. Lay the brood box to one side and scrape and scorch the floor and replace the brood box. Scorch or wash the hive tool between hives. It's a bit time consuming but hey ho!! I also have a hole drilled in the back of each floor with a wooden dowel pushed gently into the hole which I can pull out to for OA sublimation treatment and this keeps the gas vap tube well away from the polystyrene with no risk of melting the broodbox.

 

[Malcolm B.]

I've spent the evening trying to design 3D-printable connectors for supports for butterfly netting to use on my brassicas, and given that I'm not a regular user of CAD packages my brain is starting to ooze out of my ears.

James,

Have a look at OpenSCAD - OpenSCAD - Downloads
It's Open Source software so it is free to use.
I find it is very easy to use for 3D print design.
It produces the required STL files as well as a raft of other output files as well.
I use it for 3D print design and very much like you I may go for some weeks or even longer without using it.
Because of the way one uses it, I tend to load a previous design and then quickly start changing things instead of beginning with a blank page and then trying to remember how to get started!

I also use FreeCad - FreeCAD: Your own 3D parametric modeler
Again, Open Source software so it is free to use.
This is a very powerful Cad package so therefore more complicated to learn and use.
I use it for metalwork design and fabrication and also for carpentry.
I have used it for 3D printing and it will produce very complicated designs and shapes, however I find OpenSCad far quicker to use for "normal" designs.

I'm a confirmed Linux user (I'll never go back to Microsoft) but both of the above are available to Microsoft and Mac users as well.

Kind regards,

Malcolm.

Edited to add - Below is the design of a frame spacer - just to show the simplicity!

 

[JamezF]

I used to use OpenSCAD and then moved to FreeCAD. The ability to set constraints on the positions of elements of the design that come with FreeCAD (and others, obviously) was just too useful to ignore. I like FreeCAD, but the learning curve for such applications is very steep and made more difficult when you only need to use them now and then.

James

 

[JamezF]

0.5% is not my suggestion, it’s what the NBU recommends in their notes on sterilisation of poly boxes as I posted above.
If you watch the BMH video, for some reason Laurence has used 3% which I think he has got from the fact that most household bleach has a 3% concentration of sodium hypochlorite.

Ahh, fair enough. Clearly I misinterpreted.

James