Cane sugar or sugarbeet

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Finman 

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Ridiculous debate about cane sugar or beet.

world is full of other sugar origins.

do you know what are the white and black in the hen's poo. - It is same poo.
 

m100 

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0.1 ppb

or to put it another way

you have 10 million 1kg bags of sugar (10000 tonnes) If they were laid end to end, a line of sugar bags that would stretch 3700 miles, all the way from London to Washington DC.

Randomly mixed in with that sugar is 1g of some substance

...or to put it yet another way, it's half an ounce on the weight of the Queen Mary 2, a chunk of steel, glass and tat 1100 ft long, 130ft wide and 230ft high.

This substance at 0.1ppb screws up trillions of bees, yet in places where the bad substance has been withdrawn completely for more than a decade or has never been used there are still problems, but this magic substance is so good at hiding its presence we can't detect it in the laboratory even with the very best techniques but it must be there because the bees are dying.


:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

Brosville 

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It CAN be detected, it's just that those who make many foodstuffs gloss over the presence of sometimes hundreds of chemical substances which are present (albeit in small quantities)....
I wholeheartedly commend your method of helping us all to visualise the enormous dilutions involved, which goes to firmly underline just how bally dangerous some of these toxins are..........
 

Hivemaker. 

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So what is your opinion of the entire planet earth regards toxins....from planes,vehicles,volcano's,factorys,ect ect ect....is it safe for the bee's to even breath or be collecting nectar or pollen on this planet,and every other living thing come to that....would it be safer to be dead...or back in the stone age,but even then there were natural toxins....no hope at all really is there.:beatdeadhorse5:
 
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Brosville 

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Not a lot - in the words of Will Self, "we're toast".....
Sadly the planet is polluted to hell, not least by pesticides - add into the equation fun things like endocrine disruptors, the pill residue in our water, the effects of pseudo-oestrogens from plastics, (etc ad infinitum) we have increasing challenges to life itself, and the quality of that life.
As many people have shown, we don't actually need to consume gobbets of power to lead a good and full life, and that we can actually increase yields and the fertility of the land by not using any "icides" or synthetic inputs whatsoever, and that this planet could provide a home for many species, including man for millenia more, but sadly there's a great many rich and powerful lobbies doing their utmost to stop such heresy spreading.............
 

Skyhook 

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I have read somewhere (but can't find the reference) that when beet sugar was first produced commercially some unpleasant substances were used in the refining process which gave it a bad name with beeks, but the process was changed a long time ago.
 

MuswellMetro 

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Wow, Should i use distilled water or dare i mix my syrup with Thames Water PLC's tap water,

All that chlorine and traces of toxins and effluent in the water as it been drunk and excreted out again several times as it flows down the Thames...Hormone scare was the last one...fish all going female due to estragen from plastic and a pill factory

just think of all that plasitizer coming out of the soft plastic in the 2ltr bottle you shook your feed up it, the copper and lead uptaking in the water from your water pipes, aluminium from your kettle as you heated up your water, and i washed the bottle in and feeder withw ashing up liquid..will the Surfactants be a problem...and perhaps i had better not give them toxic thymol..i might even turn the hive around away from the motorway and prevalling wind.. dont want any particulates or benzenes in my honey

yep better give up bees too dangerous
 

Somerford 

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well yes it's an issue but I can't take anyone like Will Self seriously considering the volume of gack he's shoved up his nose in the past - and the chemicals used to 'purify' it !!!

I think the answer lies in whether or not colonies survive the winter better having overwintered on sugar feed or honey stores and I think the answer lies in the value of the product - you get more £ for the honey by volume than the cost of making syrup, so people choose to feed syrup - but feral colonies do quite well just feeding on honey stores !

regards

S
 

Foxylad 

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As a new beek i am quite stunned sometimes with the complete lack of fact as what does and does-not harm bees. Nearly everything is down to personal choice and guesswork.
Where is the science and fact?
 

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In general terms Foxylad very little has been done as there is no money in bees, relatively speaking.

There are several ongoing arguments which "benefit" from this, to wit, cold way warm way, sugar of various types and top and bottom bee space.

Enjoy.

PH
 

tonybloke 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finman View Post
.
do you know what are the white and black in the hen's poo. - It is same poo.
That is a very good line, I am definitely going to use it!!!!
Nope, the white bit contains the urine, and therefore the Nitrogen. ;)
 

m100 

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After assessing all the 'evidence' if bees can't cope with 0.1ppb of anything then it's about time they were consigned to history.

We can make all the honey we need with a bit of 'neonic laden' sugar and a few enzymes brewed up by evil chemical company plc. We can chuck all the hives on the fire as they will no longer be needed and the only lasting legacy will be a prehistoric bee embedded in amber and a few dozen Beehaus's that no one can work out how to dispose of correctly.

..:smash:
bee-smillie
 

Brosville 

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What an interesting application of logic - personally I'd sooner see the toxins that have effects at such a low level consigned to the dustbin of history, especially as they are in no way indispensable, and as many wise people have observed "bees are the canaries in our coalmine" - what's happening to our bees now should be a warning that is heeded before it happens to all life on earth.........
As for the post about demanding certainty, nature is far too complex for certainty, at least at our present state of knowledge and understanding..........
 

m100 

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especially as they are in no way indispensable
The world would continue without honey bees, we wouldn't starve, we'd still eat just about all we eat now with the exception of honey which we can synthesize. There might be fewer almonds around but who really cares, we managed without them a generation ago

It's a bit of a bugger for the bees but if they go the way of the Dodo then so be it. Banning neonics or beeks with fluff in their navels isn't going to do anything to change their ultimate destiny.
 

Brosville 

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This really does intrigue me - you'd happily see the demise of a beloved and irreplaceable species, yet preserve already proven dangerous "icides" because.........
It may well be that bees and man are destined to follow each other into extinction - that extinction hastened by dependence on chemicals we can do without..... so we shrug our shoulders in a gallic manner, and mutter "c'est la vie"..........
 

m100 

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...yet preserve already proven dangerous "icides"
...that extinction hastened by dependence on chemicals we can do without
proven - no

dangerous - possibly

do without - possibly, but highly unlikely with an expanding world population and a demand for more food.
 

Brosville 

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"icides" are by definition killers - the clue is in the word - also found in "suicide, matricide" etc - most definitely proven, and admitted by their manufacturers - that's what they're made for - to kill things!
"do without - possibly, but highly unlikely with an expanding world population and a demand for more food" - is what "Big Ag" wants you to believe as they see one thundering great marketing opportunity to take over food production from seed to consumer (we're talking Monsanto here).......... and they neglect to tell you that it's short-termism at it's worst, and will only accelerate the poisoning of the planet and the removal of the last vestiges of natural fertility from the soil....
There ARE other ways -I'd suggest it's argued well and understandably in the excellent "Farm for the Future" documentary - very briefly we're running out of the fossil fuels necessary for factory/prairie/chemical "farming" and we have to find other ways of feeding ourselves (and fast!)- there are methods already in existence which can easily double the yield of land, using no chemicals whatsoever, using very little in the way of inputs, which help put back the natural fertility into the land - the only thing that's stopping it happening are the vested interests that'd lose out (and the myths they've helped create)........ there's no money in NOT using GM, agrochemicals or artificial fertilisers
 

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When a man has a hammer in his hand, all problems look like nail.
Brosville lives far out of reality, but all we have some neuroses.
 

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