Can the girls leave with no queen cells?

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Bad news is that I checked for brood this morning after having left it for the 3 weeks with a queen cell as you suggested. The Queen cell was open so I guess something hatched but zero fresh brood and no signs of a queen.
Plenty of bees and extremely aggressive. I've never seen them attacking my veil by the dozens like that before! Scary.
I guess now the only thing is to buy a local queen. Having been queenless for so long I just hope they accept her.

plenty of time yet for the queen to get mated then think about starting to lay

 

[italic63]

Excellent about the honey. They are often more efficient at it when there's less brood around to feed.

What was the weather like? And forage? These can affect temper.

Were the brood cells polished as if a queen may be about to lay? It may be worth asking your neighbour if you can borrow a frame of young brood and eggs for a few days to use as a test frame to confirm whether you need to buy a queen in.

Spoke to my neighbour. He can get me either a mated queen or brood. He's coming to have a look later and we'll decide.
Weather is very hot and dry. The foraging is still going on. Lots of bees coming and going all day long right up to late evening. One thing I have noticed is they all seem a bit hyperactive when returning to the hive. Very quick on their feet. They never used to be like that . Entire frames of pollen. Much more than usual. In fact when I saw the amount of pollen coming in I was hopeful they had a queen again but no luck.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Spoke to my neighbour. He can get me either a mated queen or brood. He's coming to have a look later and we'll decide.
Weather is very hot and dry. The foraging is still going on. Lots of bees coming and going all day long right up to late evening. One thing I have noticed is they all seem a bit hyperactive when returning to the hive. Very quick on their feet. They never used to be like that . Entire frames of pollen. Much more than usual. In fact when I saw the amount of pollen coming in I was hopeful they had a queen again but no luck.

Test frame
I wouldn’t give up just yet but you do need to KNOW there us no queen in there.

 

[italic63]

plenty of time yet for the queen to get mated then think about starting to lay

Test frame
I wouldn’t give up just yet but you do need to KNOW there us no queen in there.

Thanks for your reply. I know and I agree but how? There are no signs of new brood at all on all 10 frames. Three weeks ago the Queen cell was already capped and so some time has passed. I could see other younger written cells which had been made since. The bees are extremely agitated which is unlike them.
I tried to have a look but couldn't see her also due to the overcrowding.

 

[Wilco]

Thanks for your reply. I know and I agree but how? There are no signs of new brood at all on all 10 frames. Three weeks ago the Queen cell was already capped and so some time has passed. I could see other younger written cells which had been made since. The bees are extremely agitated which is unlike them.
I tried to have a look but couldn't see her also due to the overcrowding.

Using a test frame will tell you if there isn't a queen (it won't tell you if there is). Put in a frame with young eggs/larvae. If they try to make new queen cells from it then you know there is no queen and you can either requeen or let them keep one of the new cells (but has a longer delay).

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Three weeks ago the Queen cell was already capped and so some time has passed.

but nowhere near enough time to assume that the queen has failed, been checking quite a few hives with new queens today, all with queens that emerged about four weeks ago - polished cells but no sign of brood at all as yet

 

[italic63]

Using a test frame will tell you if there isn't a queen (it won't tell you if there is). Put in a frame with young eggs/larvae. If they try to make new queen cells from it then you know there is no queen and you can either requeen or let them keep one of the new cells (but has a longer delay).

Dear All...went back to have a better look with my expert neighbour. Confirmed no larvae but he found plenty of one and two day old eggs AND a beautiful queen . Life is good again . Marked her with a nice yellow dot.
Thanks to you all for your help

 

[enrico]

Dear All...went back to have a better look with my expert neighbour. Confirmed no larvae but he found plenty of one and two day old eggs AND a beautiful queen . Life is good again . Marked her with a nice yellow dot.
Thanks to you all for your help

Remember how much patience you had this time and double it! They do all they can to survive so you need to trust them! Pleased it all worked out

 

[italic63]

Eliminating queen cells is not an effective method of swarm control - it won't stop them from swarming, it's just an attempt to delay it for a few days until you can do a proper split/nuc the queen/other method. They may well have got fed up making new ones after weeks of trying and just thought 'sod it, we're off'. Or you can hope there's one you've missed!

I'd recommend that next time you find queen cells you:

1. Take the queen, a frame of bees and a frame of stores and put them in a nuc then leave one good queen cell in the original hive.
2. Mark the top bar of the frame it's on with an arrow pointing to it.
3. A week later go back and destroy any other queen cells.
4. Then leave for three weeks.

If you're lucky you get an extra colony, if the QC fails or she fails to mate you just reunite the queen from the nuc and still have a big colony- either way you will avoid swarming.

Hello again... As you may have read the new Queen has started laying nicely and the colony had calmed down. I'm leaving them to it for now until she is well established. I would like to do a varroa check in about 2 weeks and see how she is getting on.
I feel vulnerable with only one hive so was wondering if it's too late to do a split in case of Queen cells.
What do you think?
Thanks

 

[Boston Bees]

Hello again... As you may have read the new Queen has started laying nicely and the colony had calmed down. I'm leaving them to it for now until she is well established. I would like to do a varroa check in about 2 weeks and see how she is getting on.
I feel vulnerable with only one hive so was wondering if it's too late to do a split in case of Queen cells.
What do you think?
Thanks

Whaddya mean "a split in case of queen cells"?

Are there queen cells?

Or do you mean do a split so they don't make queen cells?

Anyway, the new queen has only just got going. You need to let them build up their strength again. Revisit this in a month.

 

[italic63]

Whaddya mean "a split in case of queen cells"?

Are there queen cells?

Or do you mean do a split so they don't make queen cells?

Anyway, the new queen has only just got going. You need to let them build up their strength again. Revisit this in a month.

Thanks. I mean if I find more queen cells when I next inspect.

 

[Boston Bees]

Thanks. I mean if I find more queen cells when I next inspect.

That is a bridge that can be crossed at the time I think. But yes, in principle. So start brushing up on what method you would use to do that if it happens.

 

[italic63]

Your time will come and it will be worth it! I've learnt that if you focus on managing the bees, the honey will usually look after itself. If you fixate on honey, you risk losing the bees which means you lose the honey too.

You may need to buy in a queen but it's still fairly early in the season so there's time to get two colonies and honey still.

To do this, at this point I recommend:

1. Wait 2-3 weeks to see if you have a laying queen. If there is, go straight to #3.
2. If there is no queen at that point, buy one in immediately (should be doable in Italy?) and introduce her before the bees get too old to rear brood.
3. Let the colony grow. Once you have a full colony, either:
   1. move two frames, one of mostly sealed brood, one with eggs/young larvae and one frame of stores plus shake in some more, go back in a week and reduce to one queen cell, hope it mates and you have a nuc. OR
   2. Buy another queen. Move a frame of sealed brood, one of stores and shake in some bees.

This way you should get a full colony, hopefully some honey and at least a nuc as well.

Hello again.
Now that the colony is strong and healthy and I've harvested some honey is it too late to split the hive? Should I leave it to next spring?
Thanks

 

[Erichalfbee]

If it’s strong then yes. Put a mated queen into the queenless half of your split.

 

[italic63]

Thanks.
How about getting them to rear their own queen? Too late?

 

[Erichalfbee]

No but a good strong colony going into winter is more likely. You could just make a nuc up rather than an equal split. Then you have two good colonies.

 

[italic63]

No but a good strong colony going into winter is more likely. You could just make a nuc up rather than an equal split. Then you have two good colonies.

Yes that's what I had in mind. A new nuc plus the colony. So a nuc with no queen just fresh brood and some stores and bees?

 

[Wilco]

Yes that's what I had in mind. A new nuc plus the colony. So a nuc with no queen just fresh brood and some stores and bees?

Yes, make sure you put plenty of bees in plus both eggs/young larvae and some capped brood due to emerge soon, as well as a frame of stores. Be willing to feed it. I'd suggest only do this when the parent colony is on 8 or more frames of brood because it will weaken them. If you make the nuc strong enough it may get to full colony size by autumn.

 

[italic63]

Ok clear. Thanks.
One final question. I have limited space and need to put the new nuc next to the existing colony. Is this a problem?

 

[Wilco]

Ok clear. Thanks.
One final question. I have limited space and need to put the new nuc next to the existing colony. Is this a problem?

It's ok to do, you'll lose a lot of the flying bees who will go back to the original hive. To reduce this it can be sensible to block the entrance with some grass for a day or two as long as they're able to ventilate well.