Buying some new queens

[Poly Hive]

I say because there are three hundred miles between you and the vendor you are considering. There is no need to buy from that far afield if you want as you say to have local bees.

PH

 

[markjadams]

Thank you for all your feedback. Its very interesting to hear all the experiences.

 

[markjadams]

That's a fair comment Poly Hive, but it is more a case of not wanting Imported Queens due to them not be adapted to the UK climate rather than specifically wanting local queens.

I feel that Scotland is a good match for the Welsh climate, but this is only one of the queens I want to try, I have had some good recommendations for local queens so I am also going to contact them.

 

[B+.]

it is more a case of not wanting Imported Queens due to them not be adapted to the UK climate rather than specifically wanting local queens.

This is a complete myth markjadams. Some like to perpetuate it in order to influence others to support the native route.
For example, this was taken at the end of the osr last year (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3832) and this in July 2016 (https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/album.php?albumid=751&pictureid=3744). In both cases, the yield was over 130 Kg of honey. I'm not expecting so much this year due to the weather over winter, but, they're in 4-5 Langstroth deeps now. Not bad for a bee that some will tell you doesn't do well here.

 

[madasafish]

Over the years I have been beekeeping I have bought bees from most of the suppliers who advertise on the internet , bees from the UK, Germany , Cyprus and elsewhere. I am not able to quantify what differences in temperament /yield etc but so far:
I have not bought a queen whose offspring were really horrible.
All survived their first winter despite my incompetence in early years.
There were no visible signs of any queen or her offspring being incapable of adapting to our local conditions...which can be harsh in winter.

Most local bees - from local stock - are the spawn of Satan being swarmy, unproductive, stingy and generally useless. Of course you may be lucky and your local bees may be pleasant, productive and non swarmy. I read the mantras about "local bees". It is absolute bull excrement as it all depends on the local gene pool..Local bee populations are not homogenous and to present them as the answer to all problems is - in my ignorant opinion - disingenuous.. As anyone who collects swarms will know.


Of course the above is my opinion and there are many people who sincerely believe local is best - and in their case it may very well be true. But to extend that logic to the entire countrywide bee population is just unscientific.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Over the years I have been beekeeping I have bought bees from most of the suppliers who advertise on the internet , bees from the UK, Germany , Cyprus and elsewhere. I am not able to quantify what differences in temperament /yield etc but so far:
I have not bought a queen whose offspring were really horrible.
All survived their first winter despite my incompetence in early years.
There were no visible signs of any queen or her offspring being incapable of adapting to our local conditions...which can be harsh in winter.

Most local bees - from local stock - are the spawn of Satan being swarmy, unproductive, stingy and generally useless. Of course you may be lucky and your local bees may be pleasant, productive and non swarmy. I read the mantras about "local bees". It is absolute bull excrement as it all depends on the local gene pool..Local bee populations are not homogenous and to present them as the answer to all problems is - in my ignorant opinion - disingenuous.. As anyone who collects swarms will know.


Of course the above is my opinion and there are many people who sincerely believe local is best - and in their case it may very well be true. But to extend that logic to the entire countrywide bee population is just unscientific.

Your silly hyperbole is not very scientific either.

 

[B+.]

Your silly hyperbole is not very scientific either.

Nevertheless, he's right.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Nevertheless, he's right.

Silly hyperbole is never right. It is just silly.

But I can see how you would find it useful.

He made a stupid, and inaccurate statement.

And by the way, he can speak for himself.

 

[B+.]

He made a stupid, and inaccurate statement.

And by the way, he can speak for himself.

I'm sure he can. It just so happens that I agree with what he said.
Most "local" bees are not worth the hive-space

 

[beebopper]

Silly hyperbole is never right. It is just silly.

But I can see how you would find it useful.

He made a stupid, and inaccurate statement.

And by the way, he can speak for himself.

How can you say he is wrong?

He is giving his view of what he has found in his area, so unless you have lived in his area very recently, how can you be so absolute?

 

[Uncle Betty]

I'm sure he can. It just so happens that I agree with what he said.
Most "local" bees are not worth the hive-space

Well then you are equally hyperbolic, and equally silly.

And what else is new ?

 

[B+.]

Well then you are equally hyperbolic, and equally silly.

And what else is new ?

Oh, I see. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is "silly"?

Well, if that's the case, what makes your "local" bees so spectacular? Nothing I have said is exaggerated. In fact, I have the evidence to back it up.

 

[Uncle Betty]

How can you say he is wrong?

Because my bees do not match his description - they are not ''the spawn of Satan being swarmy, unproductive, stingy and generally useless''.

He is giving his view of what he has found in his area

No, you are wrong. He quite clearly something much more sweeping and general...

''Most local bees - from local stock - are the spawn of Satan being swarmy, unproductive, stingy and generally useless.

 

[Uncle Betty]

Oh, I see. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is "silly"?

Well, if that's the case, what makes your "local" bees so spectacular? Nothing I have said is exaggerated. In fact, I have the evidence to back it up.

I didn't say that anyone who disagrees with me is silly.

In the context that we all keep bees for our own reasons, I do say that terms like 'spawn of Satan', 'generally useless', and 'not worth hive space' are hyperbolic and silly.

Nor did I accuse you of exaggeration. I wonder why you need to manufacture a grievance here ?

You're always so haughtily defensive of the work you do.

 

[beebopper]

Because my bees do not match his description - they are not ''the spawn of Satan being swarmy, unproductive, stingy and generally useless''.



No, you are wrong. He quite clearly something much more sweeping and general...

You clearly have missed the point completely either deliberately or not. You seem to have an agenda so no point continuing.
The only valid point you make is he should have said local bees in his area.

Just read his post again and his last sentence really qualifies what he has written anyway.

 

[Uncle Betty]

You clearly have missed the point completely either deliberately or not. You seem to have an agenda so no point continuing.
The only valid point you make is he should have said local bees in his area.

Just read his post again and his last sentence really qualifies what he has written anyway.

If it weren't silly hyperbole, it wouldn't have needed qualification.

It's because he has an agenda, you see.

Don't worry about it.


.

 

[B+.]

Nor did I accuse you of exaggeration. I wonder why you need to manufacture a grievance here ?

You're always so haughtily defensive of the work you do.

I don't think I manufactured this

Well then you are equally hyperbolic, and equally silly.

And what else is new ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic
Hyperbolic is an adjective describing something that resembles or pertains to a hyperbola (a curve), to hyperbole (an overstatement or exaggeration), or to hyperbolic geometry.

 

[Uncle Betty]

I don't think I manufactured this

Let's clarify -

Nothing I have said is exaggerated. In fact, I have the evidence to back it up.

Since I made no accusation that you exaggerated anything in relation to your bees, then you are really just protesting too much here.

But to reiterate - since I don't need to share your criteria for beekeeping, (ie I am not avaricious/don't need the money/don't need the constant affirmation etc etc ) then your terms like 'not worth hive-space' are irrelevant at best.


.

 

[Uncle Betty]

That's a fair comment Poly Hive, but it is more a case of not wanting Imported Queens due to them not be adapted to the UK climate rather than specifically wanting local queens.

I feel that Scotland is a good match for the Welsh climate, but this is only one of the queens I want to try, I have had some good recommendations for local queens so I am also going to contact them.

I think the important thing to clarify in your mind is why you want to keep the bees. Let that guide your decision.

You may want primarily to continue the ancient craft with local bees, which is a perfectly valid motivation. And do-able.

Or rather than spending a few years to get to the point where you can improve our own bees, you can buy in from a breeder - I would always favour supporting the local economy.

Or perhaps the profit motive.

Best of luck whatever you decide.

 

[B+.]

Let's clarify -



Since I made no accusation that you exaggerated anything in relation to your bees, then you are really just protesting too much here.

But to reiterate - since I don't need to share your criteria for beekeeping, (ie I am not avaricious/don't need the money/don't need the constant affirmation etc etc ) then your terms like 'not worth hive-space' are irrelevant at best.


.

You used the word hyperbolic (exaggerated). That is why I replied. I have not exaggerated anything.

You make an assumption that I am motivated by honey output. I am not. I simply referred to it because others are. In fact, my primary goal is to breed gentle bees with a degree of varroa tolerance.
When the secretary of my local association boasts at our agm that his "local" bees brought in 100 lbs (and others voiced admiration of his achieving that much), I have to say that mine produced considerably more. What's more, that is in the same region of the country.
However, it is not their yield that makes me say they aren't worth the hive space, it is their swarminess, temper and susceptibility to chalkbrood. In my area, thats what the local bee is like.