Black around lids

[Compostcritter]

Hi
Can someone tell me how to prevent the black tar like substance from appearing under the lids of my honey jars. I store in a dry place. What is it and will it spoil the honey ? I am sure it will not as it is just around the rim.
Thanks in advance.

 

[oliver90owner]

Metal or plastic lids? Tell us so we can put you right. Seems to me like poor seals or dirty glass outside the seal.

I am expecting they are metal, not plastic.

Or is this actually on the inside surface of the lid over the honey?

Personally I might tell the bees to stop fogaging on the road surfaces in hot weather!

 

[Rosti]

If it is around the lip of the jar where it contacts the lid and filling contaminated the lip with honey then it could be yeast/ mould growth where the honey exposed to the air ( on the outside of the jar neck/lip/thread) has absorbed moisture from the environment making it a viable growth medium.

 

[enrico]

Honey reacts with metal producing this black residue. You can sometimes find bolts in the extractor will do the same. Go over to plastic twist lids. Do not sell honey with black lids. To avoid it make sure you always wipe and dry the lips of the jars before putting the lds on. Never reuse these lids. As I say the best way is to go over to plastic twist ones. Keep everything as clean as possible.
E

 

[enrico]

Just out of interest that is what used to happen a lot with the old galvanised metal extractors when the galvination used to wear off. Plastic is the best thing since sliced bread for beekeepers!
E

 

[iand]

ditto to both comments by enrico.
Its linked to the ph (acid level) of honey.
Which is why way back, when using galvanised gear, it was a case of use then wash. If left overnight you would get streaks black of honey running from any exposed steel.
Plastic/stainless steel have made life a lot easier to manage.

 

[Compostcritter]

Thanks Enrico. I sterlise the lids and jars to ensure the are really clean prior to filling the jars. I have over 500 metal lids still so would like to use these up before purchasing plastic. Is there any sure fire method of making sure the rims do not go black? Do you also know where the cheapest place to get plastic lids is. And are they normally interchangeable with glass jars. Sorry for all the questions.

 

[Compostcritter]

Also is the honey ok, if I clean the rims and replace lids? I have not got alot of jars left, but would not want to waste what I have. Cheers

 

[victor meldrew]

Could be poor quality lids?
The varnish on new steel lids should be good enough for maiden usage !
Honey is better stored in 30lb buckets and bottled when required thus obviating the chances of this black deposit . incidentally , the black deposit is used to dye pitted black olives

See post 6 Beekeeping Forum > Beekeeping General Section > Beekeeping Forum
galanised extractor etc are they ok to use
VM

 

[RoofTops]

I have never seen this problem with metal lids. The closest I have seen is rust if the jars get damp after the lid has been fitted. The rust occurs where the glass of the jar cuts into the varnish they apply to the lids at the point the threads are made.

If you are getting some sort of black mold it must, as others have suggested, be something to do with honey being where it shouldn't plus some moisture in the atmosphere I would have thought.

The jar must be filled with honey without an honey getting onto the lip of the jar. This can happen with hand bottling but when it does the honey must be wiped off with a clean cloth and then what I do is give it a good wipe with a dry, clean, dish cloth. If you are cleaning the rims of the jar with a damp honey soaked cloth then that could be the cause.

By all means go over to plastic lids, they are great if you want to put chutney or pickles in your honey jar but by convention local honey is normally sold in metal lidded jars in the UK. Plastic lids might smack too much of the supermarket.

 

[Compostcritter]

Thanks all. I am pretty certain it is because of not wiping the lids enough after sterilisation. I am sure that some honey may have also been on the top. Can any give me advise on what they pour the honey into the jars with. This may help, as I am quite clumsy.
Interesting about the olives!

 

[tonybloke]

I usually fill jars from a settling tank, straight from the honey valve. If you're prone to getting honey on the rim of the jars, try using a jam funnel.
rgds, Tony

 

[Compostcritter]

Great idea. Cheers Tony

 

[peterbees]

Best place to buy plastic lids is C. Wynne Jones at Ruthin. Yes, plastic lids are interchangeable with metal lids. I use the gold plastic lids, which are far better quality than metal lids, no scratches or dents. I've been using them for 10 years with no customer resistance. They arrive in sealed plastic bags, no need to wash them before use. I don't reuse plastic lids.

 

[Compostcritter]

Thanks for this, I need to use my 500 or so metal lids first that I also procured from C Wynne Jones, then I may give that plastic ones a go. In the mean time I will be more careful with wiping off the honey at the top of the jar.

 

[enrico]

Also try and keep the jars level once filled. If you tip the around the Honey will still go on the lids. I think your problem is the sterilisation. Is it in the dishwasher? The salt in the dishwasher will wreck the metal lids and there lies your problem. It is taking off the coating and letting the honey hit the metal!
Best of luck
E

 

[victor meldrew]

Also try and keep the jars level once filled. If you tip the around the Honey will still go on the lids. I think your problem is the sterilisation. Is it in the dishwasher? The salt in the dishwasher will wreck the metal lids and there lies your problem. It is taking off the coating and letting the honey hit the metal!
Best of luck
E

Impossible to keep jars level and out of ones control once sold
However , once lid has been screwed onto a clean jar thread! the 'Flowed in Seal'
Should contain the honey , after all it's the threaded part of the lid that is subject to damage and consequential corrosion ?
I do not re-use lids as the damage can be almost impossible to spot !
VM

 

[Compostcritter]

I don't reuse. I sterilse jars and lids in water and sterilser powder. Does anyone else sterilise? I know honey does not spoil it is just a precaution as I make hams and jellies so it's something I do as s matter of course. I do not get any black deposits from these and I use the same jars do it has to be the honey on the jar causing the issue I think.

 

[Dishmop]

This makes me think of the black yucky goo that you get from sugar syrup when its gone off.

 

[victor meldrew]

This makes me think of the black yucky goo that you get from sugar syrup when its gone off.

One is a black mould, t'other is a chemical reaction twixt acidic honey and iron !
VM