Beliefs of Forum Members...

[For want of a better word]

Look English dictionary...

James11 version or Oxford?

 

[victor meldrew]

Or Chambers Smarty.
VM


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[Finman]

James11 version or Oxford?

An adult person wants to read such information, which supports his recent way of living. YOu must find a proper dictionary your self.

Something "vegan dictionary", I suppose.

A hint
Vegan = A follower of veganism is known as a vegan
.

 

[For want of a better word]

Or Chambers Smarty.
VM


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DON'T Google that.............. !!!!

​

 

[victor meldrew]

Never fear I won't
VM


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[blackcavebees]

This... God, Mary, Joseph, Jesus, business is a bit strange, Mary is married to Joseph, she has a bit on the side with God (commits adultery) and gets pregnant, so Joseph is really the stepfather, then God writes a law on a piece of stone, thou shall not commit adultery...strange.

Hey Pete, I'm scratching my head a bit at this post?

Mary was engaged to Joseph when an angel appeared to her and told her she was going to carry God's child. She was a virgin (that's why they call it the virgin birth) - there was no physcical sex involved, and Joseph did not "know" her (old english parlance for sex) until after Jesus was born. Joseph, on finding Mary pregnant was going to break off the engagement quietly until an angel appeared to him and told him that she was carrying the son of God. No adultery involved, and Joseph and Mary went on to have more family (the old fashioned way) after Jesus. That's what makes Christmas so important - God breaks into human history in person this time, in the person of Jesus Christ. It is humbling to me to think that God walked this earth, went through the things I have to go through and more. He is no longer "the God out there" but he's been where we are and experienced the good and bad we have.

 

[Hivemaker.]

What were the names of her other children, i read some place she had no more and was a life long virgin,which makes no sense with the bottom bit.

Just found this about the marriage bit, seems she was married before Jesus was born from this.

There are three passages of Scripture that pertain specifically to the time of Joseph and Mary’s betrothal, the consummation of their marriage, and the birth of Jesus: Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-56; Luke 2:1-7. Each passage reveals something about their relationship as well as the cultural mores of that time.

In Bible times, Jewish marriage customs regarding a couple’s engagement were far different and much more stringent than those we are familiar with today, especially in the West. Marriages were arranged by the parents of the bride and groom and often without even consulting the couple to be married. A contract was prepared in which the groom’s parents paid a bride price. Such a contract was immediately deemed binding, with the couple considered married even though the actual ceremony and consummation of the marriage would not occur for as long as a year afterwards. The time between was a sort of testing of fidelity with the couple having little, if any, contact with each other.

It was during this betrothal period that the angel Gabriel visited Mary and told her of her impending pregnancy. It’s no small wonder that Mary was so inquisitive of the angel; she was still a virgin and would know no man sexually for several months, maybe as long as a year or more (Matthew 1:18; Luke 1:34).

Joseph soon became aware of Mary’s pregnancy, and this no doubt was cause for consternation on his part: “Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly” (Matthew 1:19). Jewish custom allowed that they be considered as husband and wife, though the marriage had not yet been consummated. The point is being made that Joseph and Mary had experienced no sexual contact with each other, as verse 18 “before they came together” points out. So, Joseph was in a quandary. Jewish law provided that his betrothed, because of her unfaithfulness, could be placed before the elders for judgment and stoned to death. But he was thinking to just put her away quietly without public knowledge. Betrothals or marriage engagements in those ancient times were binding and could only be terminated by an official divorce decree.

It was then that the angel appeared to Joseph in a dream (Matthew 1:20-25) and explained to him that all this was bringing about the fulfillment of prophecy that a virgin would bear a child who was to be the Savior (Isaiah 7:14), and “he [Joseph] did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.”

Luke 2:1-7 also confirms the idea that Joseph and Mary, though betrothed, were considered as husband and wife by Jewish customs even though the actual marriage ceremony had not been fully effectuated. So, Joseph and Mary were actually legally married before the birth of Jesus though their marriage was not consummated physically until after His birth.

 

[REDWOOD]

Just to confuse things further

In the Bible the word consecration means “the separation of oneself from things that are unclean, especially anything that would contaminate one’s relationship with a perfect God.” Consecration also carries the connotation of sanctification, holiness, or purity.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I had locked this thread, thinking that it was for the best, obviously i was wrong, sorry JB, peoples feeling count for nothing, so it is now open again, carry on.....

No probs HM - at least now it seems to be a civilised discussion not just a strangely spiteful attack on peoples beliefs which it was before the closing/opening, At least I feel that I can contribute now without being accused of stirring the pot

Not much of the bible would stand up to scrutiny !
Right from Genesis !
The whole point is faith, not analytical dissection
The sons of Eve went to the land of Nodd and took wives . How come when they were the only people on earth?
One explanation being women's status wasn't worth a mention ? Eve was !
The act of faith is personal and should be respected !
VM
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in a nutcase VM

Sent from my study whilst drinking a post session cup of tea and a Welsh cake

 

[Hivemaker.]

Just to confuse things further

Lots of different things written, all just as confusing and contradictory.
The virgin Mary, or Mary mother of Jesus and also Mary mother of God, how does mother of God work...she had God, then he gets her pregnant and she has Jesus.... the more versions i read,the more confusing it gets.

 

[blackcavebees]

"What were the names of her other children, i read some place she had no more and was a life long virgin,which makes no sense with the bottom bit."

The life long virginity of Mary is a doctrine that appears in parts of the church from the fourth century onwards as almost a reaction to Arianism by Jerome and was supported by some church Fathers, a number of ecumenical councils around 7-8th centuries and early Protestant reformers like Martin Lurther and Latimer. It is part of the teaching of the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics and some Anglo-Catholics in the Anglican communion. It was not accepted by most Reformed churches. The "Church" can be reactionary in history - for example anyone who didn't toe their line became heretics etc. Although Tertullian accepted there were brothers and sisters after Jesus, the "Church" a few hundred years after Jesus started to brand anyone who held this view as anti-Mary. (that's one reason why the Reformation wanted to bring bible teaching back to the fore)

Myself, I look to the Bible for answers and because of references to Jesus' brothers I have never considered it a bible teaching. The most famous brother was James, who until after the Resurrection was viewed as a critic of Jesus - seeing the resurrected Jesus seemed to seal the deal for him. James led the church in Jerusalem until he was executed, 62AD if I remember right. Jude (he has a book) was another, as were Joseph and Simon. There were sisters but not named in the bible. Mark 6:3, Matthew 13:56, Paul mentions James in Galatians but it's after midnight and I can't remember where!

Hope this helps a bit, but I'm starting to fall asleep at the keyboard! Night all.

 

[blackcavebees]

Lots of different things written, all just as confusing and contradictory.
The virgin Mary, or Mary mother of Jesus and also Mary mother of God, how does mother of God work...she had God, then he gets her pregnant and she has Jesus.... the more versions i read,the more confusing it gets.

Not too confusing, even when I'm nodding off! Jesus is God the Son incarnated in human flesh, so as she gave birth to Him, she is called the mother of God. Picture in the bible of God in three persons, three in one, the Trinity, the Father, The Son, the Holy Spirit. The Father sends his Son to earth, to be born (first and only time this happens) of a woman, and so we have God in humanity: Jesus Christ. (Christmas). God the Son comes to earth, is born of a human mother, and lives among us. So Mary as a virgin becomes is the mother of Jesus (who is fully God and fully man at the same time) so that's why she gets called mother of God as well.

Bottom line, it is a bit of a mystery, and although we can comprehend bits of it I often think me trying to plumb the depths of God is like one of my bees trying to work out how the guy in the white suit and veil with the smoker works! A bit beyond me. So I just work with what's in the Bible and if it's not there no point me trying to make it up. As I said in a previous post it is about a relationship with God. (defo off to bed now, got to get up at 06:30)

 

[Hivemaker.]

Bottom line, it is a bit of a mystery

It sure is...

Looking at the link below i wonder why there was no mention in the bible of things like the dinosaurs ect, pretty huge things some of them, i would of thought them worthy of at least mentioning by name, as they were on the earth for millions and millions of years, we have only been on earth for a fraction of a second compared to their time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_evolutionary_history_of_life

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Maybe it's because the dinosaurs were extinct long, long, before Homo sapiens came on the scene. So they never were part if human consciousness, to be held in cultural stories.........


........unless we postulate that dragons, unicorns and the like, are unconscious archetypal references to dinosaurs.

Dusty

 

[Hivemaker.]

Maybe it's because the dinosaurs were extinct long, long, before Homo sapiens came on the scene. So they never were part if human consciousness, to be held in cultural stories.........
Dusty

Were they, and all things not made by God then, Dusty.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Were they, and all things not made by God then, Dusty.

Of course!

There is a strong theological view that evolution (in whatever form) is a God created process.

Only charity stops me getting cross with fundamentalists who need to stick to Genesis 1-3 as history, not metaphor.
[No, let's be honest. I detest fundamentalism, in any area of theology, psychology or wherever. But being 65, I'm allowed to be grumpy.]

It's much more exciting to see creation as Teilhard de Chardin did - as a 'push-pull' process, in which God gives creation the push of the Big Bang, within the laws of physics, biology, evolution etc - and 'pulls' creation along to what he called, the "Omega Point". The struggle of creation, of life, is the struggle for the self-actualisation of existence.

Chardin (an anthropologist and Jesuit) would even contribute to the earlier debate about bees and the soul! For him, the highest point of expression of evolution, is 'consciousness' - which even the bee has. And the highest expression of consciousness (to date!) is human self-consciousness.
[Mind you, Chardin never met Nigel Farage.]

I have no problem at all in reconciling evolution and religion. Quite the opposite. For me, it's something of a clincher.

Then, if we get onto 'Process Theology', we really get to the exciting stuff!
Deals with the lovely lemon meringue the missus baked earlier - and your question of whether God created all things.

That's my take on things. Not trying to tell others how to think.

Dusty

 

[Hivemaker.]

Jesus is God the Son incarnated in human flesh

Of course!

There is a strong theological view that evolution (in whatever form) is a God created process.

These are the things that i find don't make sense, if Jesus as God was doing all the teaching he did, why would he not mention something as spectacular as the creatures that he had previously created, no mention at all.

You have been sent to this forum as a missionary haven't you, Dusty.

 

[Dusty Rhodes]

Me? Taking a missionary position? Certainly not!
I'm terrible at all that converting stuff. I leave it to those even worse at it than me.

I see the thrust of your question. The response is two-fold:

The point of the God-as-man stuff (the technical term is, 'Incarnation'), is that JC was limited to being as fully human as a human of the C1 could be. C1 humans knew nothing about dinosaurs, radiology, geophysics or the National Lottery - neither did JC. He wouldn't have a take on whether to use matchsticks to ventilate a hive in winter, or whether poly hives are the devil's work (which they are, if course).

On the other hand, his teaching was about how to live well, live to the full, minimising wrongness, communally and in tune with a God-directed universe.
He did that, according to traditional theology, even to the lengths of being able to transcend laws of nature. I don't know about that. I wasn't there. [Tho' I did see examples of that happening in my decades as a hospital chaplain.]

Anyhow, enough theology for now. If you want to know more, see you in the Cathedral in a few hours, Hivemaker! [I could use your wisdom about our hives.]


Dusty.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Anyhow, enough theology for now.

Goodnight, Dusty, will try and explain my own beliefs after church.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Wish I'd stayed up now! but i do have the club toilets to unblock this morning