beevital hive clean

[wessexmario]

If you sell honey then that is a different animal altogether, however there is no legal reason you cannot buy Oxalic acid and mix with the correct amount of Thymol and carvacrol.

Are you really sure that home-made versions of veterinary medicines are legally equivalent to the authorised manufacturer product?

I believe not, in the same way and for similar reasons that selling home made gin is not permitted [unless your product is itself tested and licensed].

For practical purposes oxalic acid is oxalic acid, the raw chemical has many advantages over the commercial products which have trace additives that are designed more to make them unique for licencing purposes than for medicinal advantage, but that doesn't make the application of the raw chemical, nor a home made copy of a licensed product [even given the same ingredients and production process], into a legally approved veterinary medicine.

 

[Dr J.Bell]

so since new regualtion in April 2016 you as a researcher may buy oxalic dihydrate crystal but not us as individuals unless you have a licence see https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ome-users-of-poisons-and-explosive-precursors and what you are advising would invalidate your product insurance from the BBKA

hobbyist beekeepers even with two hives are going to get between 40 to 100lbs of honey (perhaps even more in a good year) which is more than enough for home consumption Your view on Tax is a total red herring as there are permitted limits for sale by hobbyists (being revised upwards from 2017)

Ok I will clear this up. The regulations actually came in last year but there was a time delay given to allow people to comply, I confess i didnt realize Oxalic acid was on the list, unfortunately as you point out i simply fill out a form and chemicals are delivered.

My mistake was making an assumption that seems totally wrong! I had assumed most small scalers were not actually selling honey!!

I also assumed if someone with a couple of hives was having problems they might like to try something slightly different, it didnt occur to me most seem to be small businesses rather than garden Beekeepers!

regarding the law..............

Oxalic and other chemicals aside.............

There is no legal reason you cannot use a natural homemade product on your hives, as sellers you will already be complying with the law and having honey tested anyway, so any taint would show up.

Steam distillation of essential oils such as wormwood applied in late autumn will have no effect and show no taint on your honey. I intend to write an article soon on various plants that can be used around hives and in smoker's, keep an open mind please. Also keep in mind you have no control (generally) on what your Bees consume, if your bees were to visit whitch hazel blossom you would have the essential oil show in a GC assay, this is no different from a dilute solution being trickled over comb later in the year.

Even with Chickens, you can buy a product called Vermin X (dosnt work) but it is purely a blend of natural herbs, as long as it meets trading standard rules particularly regarding the label then no reason why it cant be sold.

There is a legal distinction between a all natural product and one containing a chemical or sold as a medication. Just in case.............This applies to the UK and EU, I have zero knowledge regarding FINLAND or the USA.

I have a vague memory of reading some far stricter rules in the USA from the FDA?

 

[Dr J.Bell]

Are you really sure that home-made versions of veterinary medicines are legally equivalent to the authorised manufacturer product?

I believe not, in the same way and for similar reasons that selling home made gin is not permitted [unless your product is itself tested and licensed].

For practical purposes oxalic acid is oxalic acid, the raw chemical has many advantages over the commercial products which have trace additives that are designed more to make them unique for licencing purposes than for medicinal advantage, but that doesn't make the application of the raw chemical, nor a home made copy of a licensed product [even given the same ingredients and production process], into a legally approved veterinary medicine.

If your not selling the honey then what you put on your Bees is your business.

You are not making a medication, Oxalic acid is a raw chemical and although having just checked it is now a precursor and restricted! But last year you could have legally used it, again the restriction being you would not be able to sell or give the honey away, it would have to be consumed by yourself or close family members, Oxalic acid is not a licensed medicine.

Try vinegar! actually you need 10-15% acetic acid, normal vinegar is 5%. At the end of the year or for cleaning old hives a good soak in it followed by a soak in baking soda does wonders! AND completely legal

 

[Dr J.Bell]

I think you'd be much better placed by referring to what you're proposing as a "registration" rather than as a "licence".

The latter has connotations of requiring official permission and payment, which gives a negative first impression, whereas "registration" meaning identifying how many and where colonies are, is what I believe you're actually trying to achieve.

As I expect you know, we already have a "registration system" in Beebase, so is what you're proposing really that it ought to be mandatory rather than voluntary?
It would be a simple but significant step to make that change.

Yes you are completely correct. unfortunately the wording we are dealing with states licensing, this is an idiom regarding how changes in legislation is made. This is not really my field but my understanding is the process follows the licensing path because it would be compulsory, but you are correct in saying it would be registration.

This is exactly the same as small holding and parish numbers, the route the legal framework follows is licensing, however the process you see is called registration. i am sorry for the confusion and thank you for pointing out what is actually meant.

To use small holding as an example, simply because the system proposed is heavily based upon it.

If you decide to keep Bees you would be required to apply for something like a parish number (also called a small holding number), this puts you on a register.

Now if you keep sheep then you need to apply for a herd number (if breeding etc), if keeping chickens you are asked to inform but not required under 50 birds, if over 50 birds you are obliged to inform of the flock and each year fill out a form. This is purely for disease control and to prioritize who to contact in the event of a significant disease break out, for example with chicken NEWCASTLE disease.

If you sell what you produce from your small holding then there are other rules.................

now for Bees what is proposed and highly likely to become law (even more so if we leave the EU) is a similar system to small holding and the way it applies to chickens, under X number of hives kept on your own holding no one is interested but you fill a form each year. Over X number of hives and if you move any off your holding then you would be required to use a movement license, you would also be required to abide by a standstill rule, currently what is proposed is 6 weeks, i can however see this time period being shortened.

In my own opinion I can see only advantages for the average keeper, for the garden keeper little would change except a short form to fill in once a year.

 

[Vortex]

now for Bees what is proposed and highly likely to become law (even more so if we leave the EU) is a similar system to small holding and the way it applies to chickens, under X number of hives kept on your own holding no one is interested but you fill a form each year. Over X number of hives and if you move any off your holding then you would be required to use a movement license, you would also be required to abide by a standstill rule, currently what is proposed is 6 weeks, i can however see this time period being shortened.

In the case of Notifiable disease we already have standstill orders which we are required to abide by.

Irrespective of the definition of holding (do you mean apiary?), other than in the case of notifiable disease any form of restriction is liable to be unworkable.

If I split a colony, and in any given year I cannot determine if or when I may need to do that, and from that split have a nucleus colony, I may wish to move that colony to another apiary.. t
The point I may wish to do that is determined by how fast that colony builds up, so assuming I'm inspecting every 7 days I would only know 7 days in advance that I want to move it..
That may be a Saturday .. chances are it'd be Monday morning before I could apply for the license and most likely Wednesday (not sure which week) before it got looked at, and some time the week after before it got approved (or not) by which time my Nuc's swarmed because they've outgrown the box because I couldn't move them to the hive I wanted to put them in.

 

[Dr J.Bell]

In the case of Notifiable disease we already have standstill orders which we are required to abide by.

Irrespective of the definition of holding (do you mean apiary?), other than in the case of notifiable disease any form of restriction is liable to be unworkable.

If I split a colony, and in any given year I cannot determine if or when I may need to do that, and from that split have a nucleus colony, I may wish to move that colony to another apiary.. t
The point I may wish to do that is determined by how fast that colony builds up, so assuming I'm inspecting every 7 days I would only know 7 days in advance that I want to move it..
That may be a Saturday .. chances are it'd be Monday morning before I could apply for the license and most likely Wednesday (not sure which week) before it got looked at, and some time the week after before it got approved (or not) by which time my Nuc's swarmed because they've outgrown the box because I couldn't move them to the hive I wanted to put them in.

While we have mainly lived in larger properties and mostly because of wifes hobbies we have been registered small holdings, however I am not 100% up on the rules, i leave that to my wife. But i will relate the system as it applies to say sheep or chickens.

Lets assume your apiary is also your home (for the moment anyway), you would apply under the small holder scheme, this entails applying for what is known as a parish number (you get it from your local parish council).

Now what you keep at this address if under a certain number is largely not bothered about. So lets assume the final figure settled upon for Hives is 10, if you keep under 10 Hives you would be asked on the form how many you keep.
Now keeping this as general as i can.....

Currently with chickens any under 50 is considered a garden flock, it simply notifies DEFRA you are a keeper of a small number of chickens. You would not be expected to register a flock under 50 but a declaration is appreciated.

At 50 birds or under you are not considered to be a significant vector risk in the event of a disease outbreak. However as with Bees if you notice one of your chickens has a notifiable disease (such as Newcastle disease in chickens and not seen for many decades in the UK ) you are legally obliged to report it.

If there were to be a disease outbreak in your area of say Newcastle disease then at 50 birds or under you are likely to be informed last and highly unlikely to get a DEFRA or vet visit, should an outbreak occur locally (unless you ask for one), on a slight tangent but still relevant, at 50 birds or under you are allowed to sell any eggs produced 'at the gate'. You dont have to register as an egg producer or candle, grade the eggs, part of this falls under grand father rights and part is custom and practice, contrary to popular belief the government is not out to crucify the little guy.

Selling a few dozen eggs 'at the gate' does not get you a visit from the tax man either, although by the letter of the law you should actually declare the income, in reality at this level its more hassle to process than its actually worth.

Now lets say my little flock of 40 birds are lent to a friend down the road who has a slug or snail problem in there garden, no one bats an eyelid. When I bring the birds back and say buy 5 more chickens then according to the letter of the law I am at that point not allowed to move any more chickens on or off my property for 3 weeks (I think its around 3 weeks, but not 100% sure of the time scale). Again being under the 50 bird limit this is not enforced and nothing is really done.

So now lets say I have 60 chickens, then by law I am required to enter this onto my DEFRA form. These are supposedly registered and I am given a flock number, I can still sell 'at the gate' but i am limited as to the quantity i can sell without having to register as an egg producer, registering as an egg producer in done via trading standards and involves a visit from environmental health [ recently some councils have had to combine departments in order to cut costs, however the visit is conducted by an environmental health officer, but he might be under a different department!].

If i now move my flock of 60 birds down the road, I have to fill in a movement license, these are downloaded online if needed, you do not have to wait for a response and rarely get one (specific conditions trigger a response), you are allowed a time period in which to send the movement license off, i cant remember the time frame and cant be bothered to look it up (you can check yourself online) but I think its something like within 1-3 months.

If I move the flock then apart from a travel license (if over a certain distance) all I do is fill in a movement form, this allows DEFRA to keep track of the number of chickens in a given area. Chickens become a bad model at this point, but lets stick with it. The place you move them too should have a parish number, so on the form you put the parish number (small holding number) from where the birds came from, and the destination parish number of where the birds are going.

At this point there is a stand still period, I would not be allowed to move new chickens onto my small holding for 21 days (I think 21 days), nor would I be allowed to put more chickens onto the small holding where I had put my chickens for 21 days. There a mechanism you can use to get permission to break this rule, you have to apply for it and I dont really know much about it, but I think it boils down to having to have a very good reason to do so.


Now the proposal for Bees is along the same lines, at the moment nothing has been set in stone. Before anything is set in stone there would be wide consultation anyway.

The proposal currently is.................

You register say 10+ hives, where you keep them permanently (your apiary) would be given a number. Similar rules would apply as above regarding chickens.

If/when these are moved you fill out a downloadable form, you have time to do this (currently suggestion is 1 month) and send it off, you dont have to wait for anything, but you would have to put on the form the location they have been from and the location you have moved too.

You would then be under standstill for (current suggestion 4 weeks), however lets assume at home you have 15 hives and move 5, you cannot bring new Bee's into either area for the period of standstill. The difference here is in the wording NEW, if within this period you move another 5 of your original hives to the same location then these are not new bees, you do however reset the standstill date. If you move the hives to a different location you fill out a form again and put the location down, again these are not NEW Bees.

Now lets assume you get a call to collect a swarm, and your apiary is under standstill, You fill out the form (within a month) and send off, you can place the Bees ANYWHERE except an area that is under standstill.

That is roughly the current proposal being discussed. Again I must stress at this stage the proposals have not reached the stage of submitance, when they do then consultation with relevant associations etc will take place.

The fly in the ointment being if we leave the EU then I have zero idea what will happen, its likely to get kicked into the long grass for a good while.

Academia and various research groups would like to see this brought in within two years (myself included), this is about as likely to happen as Ms GB turning up on my doorstep and declaring her undying love for me!

At some point I would like to post on a new discovery (a virus) and how it came about. The reason is i get the feeling there are many assumptions that get made that are not actually how it happens, you may also find it interesting, it will certainly help explain why personally i would like to see registration as quickly as possible.

 

[Erichalfbee]

So. Plans for compulsory registration are well advanced?

 

[Dr J.Bell]

So. Plans for compulsory registration are well advanced?

LOL, to the layman yes. In reality NO.

We havnt even reached consensus yet! Then it would go out to consultation where any beekeeper a member of an association would get a say, then it goes to the house of lords etc, once it reaches the point of being put up for debate in the houses (Commons and Lords), we play ping pong with the legislation until a 16 page document reaches several hundred reams of paper.

Then it gets voted on, now assuming we stay in the EU and assuming after ping pong the legislation is voted in, it then goes through the EU to make sure it dosnt breach some obscure EU directive and we are not unfairly discriminating against any disabled,GLBT,Ethnic minority Bees.

So yes plans are advanced but sadly the chances of it becoming law any time soon are a tad lower, think Turkey joining the EU and the time scales being given for that! The only thing that will change this and bring it in much much quicker is if a new extremely serious threat is detected..........Then we may get it much faster

If you think frozen honey moves slowly, you want to see how slowly new legislation moves! (unless its a money grab)

 

[Dr J.Bell]

So. Plans for compulsory registration are well advanced?

Would you see registration as a good or bad thing? Whichever one what would your reasons be?

Feel free not to answer but it does help me understand concerns etc.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Ok I will clear this up. The regulations actually came in last year but there was a time delay given to allow people to comply, I confess i didnt realize Oxalic acid was on the list, unfortunately as you point out i simply fill out a form and chemicals are delivered.

My mistake was making an assumption that seems totally wrong! I had assumed most small scalers were not actually selling honey!!

I also assumed if someone with a couple of hives was having problems they might like to try something slightly different, it didnt occur to me most seem to be small businesses rather than garden Beekeepers!

regarding the law..............

Oxalic and other chemicals aside.............

There is no legal reason you cannot use a natural homemade product on your hives, as sellers you will already be complying with the law and having honey tested anyway, so any taint would show up.

Steam distillation of essential oils such as wormwood applied in late autumn will have no effect and show no taint on your honey. I intend to write an article soon on various plants that can be used around hives and in smoker's, keep an open mind please. Also keep in mind you have no control (generally) on what your Bees consume, if your bees were to visit whitch hazel blossom you would have the essential oil show in a GC assay, this is no different from a dilute solution being trickled over comb later in the year.

Even with Chickens, you can buy a product called Vermin X (dosnt work) but it is purely a blend of natural herbs, as long as it meets trading standard rules particularly regarding the label then no reason why it cant be sold.

There is a legal distinction between a all natural product and one containing a chemical or sold as a medication. Just in case.............This applies to the UK and EU, I have zero knowledge regarding FINLAND or the USA.

I have a vague memory of reading some far stricter rules in the USA from the FDA?

in various email you seem to assume we need to test our honey to sell it, we don't, under what Act or legislation are you assuming testing is required? The regional Bee inspectors are now under instructions to check all VMD records by direction of the NBU The completion of a VMD record and keep it for 5 years became a legal requirement in 2005 once the EU defined Honey as a product of an animal

even if you give your honey away as a gift, once it leaves your garden/premises you then are required to complete a VMD record of all chemicals added to your beehive, sale of honey is not a precursor to the VMD requirements and neither is the number of hives a person keeps. Some RBI are very hot on the VMD records others turn a blind eye but techincal a minor discretion still carries a maximum fine of £5000 the same as poisoning a few hundred people However the DEFRA line at last years Bee Health Adviser pre training in london was that the NBU will be tightening its procedures on VMD records. Compliance notices have already been issued on some products deemed to be treatments. Oxalic well it is possession not purchase of the crystals so other than a VMD approved mendicant like Api-bioxal an indiviudal will be breaking the law just with a tub of oxalic dihydrate....and we know what jobs worth are like..."you use it on your Beehives...but that's not permited

And you seem unaware that Finland is in the EU and subject to the same EU laws as UK

 

[Brigsy]

I read that oxalic over 10% water weight was restricted. What I can't find out is what water weight percentage the oxalic that is supplied by the main beekeeping companies is sold at.

 

[Dr J.Bell]

in various email you seem to assume we need to test our honey to sell it, we don't, under what Act or legislation are you assuming testing is required? The regional Bee inspectors are now under instructions to check all VMD records by direction of the NBU The completion of a VMD record and keep it for 5 years became a legal requirement in 2005 once the EU defined Honey as a product of an animal

even if you give your honey away as a gift, once it leaves your garden/premises you then are required to complete a VMD record of all chemicals added to your beehive, sale of honey is not a precursor to the VMD requirements and neither is the number of hives a person keeps. Some RBI are very hot on the VMD records others turn a blind eye but techincal a minor discretion still carries a maximum fine of £5000 the same as poisoning a few hundred people However the DEFRA line at last years Bee Health Adviser pre training in london was that the NBU will be tightening its procedures on VMD records. Compliance notices have already been issued on some products deemed to be treatments. Oxalic well it is possession not purchase of the crystals so other than a VMD approved mendicant like Api-bioxal an indiviudal will be breaking the law just with a tub of oxalic dihydrate....and we know what jobs worth are like..."you use it on your Beehives...but that's not permited

And you seem unaware that Finland is in the EU and subject to the same EU laws as UK

Under statutory instruments 2003 No. 2243.

If you dont test your honey how do you know you comply with the law? How can you sell honey and not test the honey to make sure it complies?

If you are selling honey and not testing, if something happens to a consumer the last thing that would concern me is a £5k fine!

Are you aware of what the rules are regarding the standards of honey being sold are? For example if you havnt tested your honey how do you know what the EC value is?

Regarding medication, only ONE medication is licensed for use while a super is on a hive..........at other times there are not restrictions (regarding natural products particularly, on what you use), in fact if you think about it for a moment what do organic honey producers use for treatment? One example of this would be Citric acid in the form normally of Lemon juice. So if organic producers are allowed to use citric acid from lemons (no supers on) what makes you think other products cannot be used?

Are you aware Thymol is a natural extraction from a herb?

I know most dont register with environmental health, but anyone selling more than a few jars to friends is asking for trouble if something goes wrong.

I had also assumed you were testing sugar content and make up, my assumption was based on thinking most would be responsible and make sure they are complying with the law, I see no way to know your complying without testing? OR maybe your still working under 1976 law? even so there are still requirements.

For anyone now confused........

No the law dosnt say you have to test, however it does say what standard and limits apply to honey, unless you test the honey you have no way of knowing if your honey meets the legal requirements!

Why do i see unaware Finland is in the EU? The only mention of Finland has been in conjunction with another member, I havnt checked but maybe that particular thread had a bit of a trim. Otherwise I can fathom why you think I consider Finland outside of the EU??

 

[Dr J.Bell]

I read that oxalic over 10% water weight was restricted. What I can find out is what water weight percentage the oxalic that is supplied by the main beekeeping companies is sold at.

This is because of a really stupid recent law regarding certain drug and explosive precursors, if you buy from a reputable source you dont have to worry. In all honesty even if you had say 68% Nitric acid (on the list now), as long as you had a reasonable reason to posses it the police are unlikely to do anything, in fact ring your local police station and ask what pre cursors are now banned, the chances are they wont have a clue what your on about.

The rules were brought in under terrorism prevention and are some of the most ridiculous in history!

 

[Brigsy]

Yes. I got that from the Gov site. I would suspect it would be an absolute offence of possession. Any explanation would only be mitigation. But let's not side track the discussion. I shall bow out and try and clarify!

 

[Dr J.Bell]

Yes. I got that from the Gov site. I would suspect it would be an absolute offence of possession. Any explanation would only be mitigation. But let's not side track the discussion. I shall bow out and try and clarify!

It has been used recently in Luton I believe, the primary function is against terrorism. Lets assume you report a theft of garden tools and the police turn up to look at the scene (LMFAO, ok just use your imagination), now the policeman see's a 1/2 ltr bottle of nitric acid on the shelf. I can guarantee he wont say a word.

Now lets say you make a homemade firework and let off in your garden, lets also assume you have the anarchists cook book on your pc, that same bottle of nitric acid then has a different meaning.

Actually as Bee keepers I would argue it makes sense to register a LTD company, offset your tax and you can also legally posses any of the precursors, all for £45 or whatever LTD's cost.

This is why the law is pretty ridiculous, it also discriminates against sole traders, hence why the EU court will be looking at it again.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Under statutory instruments 2003 No. 2243.

If you dont test your honey how do you know you comply with the law? How can you sell honey and not test the honey to make sure it complies?

If you are selling honey and not testing, if something happens to a consumer the last thing that would concern me is a £5k fine!

Are you aware of what the rules are regarding the standards of honey being sold are? For example if you havnt tested your honey how do you know what the EC value is?

Regarding medication, only ONE medication is licensed for use while a super is on a hive..........at other times there are not restrictions (regarding natural products particularly, on what you use), in fact if you think about it for a moment what do organic honey producers use for treatment? One example of this would be Citric acid in the form normally of Lemon juice. So if organic producers are allowed to use citric acid from lemons (no supers on) what makes you think other products cannot be used?

Are you aware Thymol is a natural extraction from a herb
?

I know most dont register with environmental health, but anyone selling more than a few jars to friends is asking for trouble if something goes wrong.

I had also assumed you were testing sugar content and make up, my assumption was based on thinking most would be responsible and make sure they are complying with the law, I see no way to know your complying without testing? OR maybe your still working under 1976 law? even so there are still requirements.

For anyone now confused........

No the law dosnt say you have to test, however it does say what standard and limits apply to honey, unless you test the honey you have no way of knowing if your honey meets the legal requirements!

Why do i see unaware Finland is in the EU? The only mention of Finland has been in conjunction with another member, I havnt checked but maybe that particular thread had a bit of a trim. Otherwise I can fathom why you think I consider Finland outside of the EU??

Apart from most of the SI being superseded by the Honey Regulations 2015 there is no requirement to test in the SI

let have a poll of the honey producers on here How many of you test the electrical conductivity of your honey as suggested by D J Bell, we are not all hobby beekeepers some are Bee Farmers

You are making a great deal of assumptions, Do you actual keep bees? or is this all theoretical interpretation of the act

if you put anything in your hive to treat for varroa it has to be one of the approved VMD medicants Apitraz500, Api-bioxal. Apiguard Apilife-var. thymovar .MAQS, bayvarol, Apistan etc or other EU approved medication such as Apivar on veterinary prescription under the cascade system ( i use apivar (500mg Amitraz) because it is more stable than Apitraz 500) .

Ok if you want to use thymol patties, thymol cruystals in cages, essential oil, citric acid ,lactic acid, neat formic, non api-bioxal oxalic acid or solution that is up to you, but should you be telling other beekeepers to use such things especially when the are not experimental scientist and when in my view you are talking twaddle amount testing Honey for the requirements of the Honey Regualtion 2015

Do i know what thymol is, yes because like you i am a scientist and worked at rothamsted in my early career and could do an EC test of honey if the act actually required it

 

[Dr J.Bell]

Apart from most of the SI being superseded by the Honey Regulations 2015 there is no requirement to test in the SI

let have a poll of the honey producers on here How many of you test the electrical conductivity of your honey as suggested by D J Bell, we are not all hobby beekeepers some are Bee Farmers

You are making a great deal of assumptions, Do you actual keep bees? or is this all theoretical interpretation of the act

if you put anything in your hive to treat for varroa it has to be one of the approved VMD medicants Apitraz500, Api-bioxal. Apiguard Apilife-var. thymovar .MAQS, bayvarol, Apistan etc or other EU approved medication such as Apivar on veterinary prescription under the cascade system ( i use apivar (500mg Amitraz) because it is more stable than Apitraz 500) .

Ok if you want to use thymol patties, thymol cruystals in cages, essential oil, citric acid ,lactic acid, neat formic, non api-bioxal oxalic acid or solution that is up to you, but should you be telling other beekeepers to use such things especially when the are not experimental scientist and when in my view you are talking twaddle amount testing Honey for the requirements of the Honey Regualtion 2015

Do i know what thymol is, yes because like you i am a scientist and worked at rothamsted in my early career and could do an EC test of honey if the act actually required it

The Act and instrument dosnt require a test, it does require the honey to meet certain standards including the EC and different sugar contents, SO I ask again if you dont test how do you know your honey meets the legal requirements to sell?
Regarding treatments you are incorrect, the only specification is the single medication that is licensed to be used while you have a super on the hive, once again if what you were saying was correct there would be no such thing as organic honey!

I work with Bees my wife keeps some.

 

[Dr J.Bell]

Look at the criteria on page 9,10,11 and tell me how you ensure you meet the criteria without testing? If you dont meet the criteria then regardless of how many test you are breaking the law if the honey does not need those standards, scientist or not its in black and white.

 

[MuswellMetro]

The Act and instrument dosnt require a test, it does require the honey to meet certain standards including the EC and different sugar contents, SO I ask again if you dont test how do you know your honey meets the legal requirements to sell?
Regarding treatments you are incorrect, the only specification is the single medication that is licensed to be used while you have a super on the hive, once again if what you were saying was correct there would be no such thing as organic honey!

I work with Bees my wife keeps some.

i was not quoting use of treatment during a honey flow, it is only you

Iwould suggest that almost all if not all of the 24,000 of the BBKA member do not test their honey for EC. HMF or Diastase, so i am in the majority of of beekeepers in the uk, Bee farmers and Honey Processor yes, they may be testing but not the 24000 bbka memeber. Complience is just by good beekeeping practice, nothing else except % water content

I am sorry but i dont think you live in the real world of beekeeping in the uk and if you are giving input on the registration of beehive, May the Gods help us

i have put a poll up, lets see how the forum responds

 

[Erichalfbee]

if you dont test how do you know your honey meets the legal requirements to sell?

I work with Bees my wife keeps some.

Could I ask whether your wife....or you for that matter...test your honey to make sure it meets all the criteria in the schedule?