Beehaus Advice

[Simplywords]

Done Deed

Hi All
Thanks for your thoughts on our beekeeping outlay. We got seven frames in a base, brood box and roof for our £300. We also bought a nuc of bees from someone who runs bee auctions in the northwest. Both sets of bees were put into their respective sides of our beehaus. They are both good tempered bees, thankfully. We attached the extensions to the standard frames in both hives, which went well.

We have been feeding the bees with a thin sugar syrup, which they are already addicted to, I think. We left them alone to get themselves in order and only did a first inspection three days ago. The Beehaus hive with the seven frames and extensions has huge numbers of bees from top to bottom and it was hard to get enough bees shaken off, to see what we had.....looking for signs of queen, or at least brood, and of course their stores.

The second hive in the Beehaus was the standard nuc. These bees were also busy, but were ignoring the extensions and the foundations in them. They were still very very busy and had been given some, but not all their frames. My husband said that he would only introduce another frame when he saw evidence that the bees had begun work in earnest in the extensions.

This Beehaus is standing on two heavy flagstones, which my husband drilled through the tube frame and into the concrete. He then used some special screw that goes in easily but is impossible to unscrew, apparently.

We are concerned that we are seeing 15 to 20 dead bees under the entrance to each hive. My husband says that all hives probably have that, but set in grass, it is likely they would not be seen.

Can anyone shed light on the dead bee thing? We have the bee inspector due this coming week, to see the two hives. I would think he will ask questions and be looking to see what we think......we don't really know what to think though, and it would be nice to have a theory or two to offer. We've met him as he came to one of the practical sessions on the course and did an official inspection of all the bee hives that the two tutors owned, explaining as he went along what to look for and what to do, if anything. The bees we got from our tutor were among those given a clean bill of health, fortunately!

So... anyone know whether the finding of dead bees below the hive entrances of around 15 to 20 each, is anything to worry about or shed light and wisdom on please? Help gratefully received as always.

 

[pargyle]

15 to 20 bees dead in front of the hive is not a huge amount - they may be kicking the drones out.

However, did you note from your inspection how much brood and/or stores there was in the hive ? You say the bees are 'busy' but what are they busy doing ? Building out comb or filling it out ?

Have you been feeding them continously since the 15th July ? We've had some of the best foraging weather we've had for the last two years in the last month - there should have been enough natural food out there for them not to need anything other than a couple of litres when you first got them hived ?

The bees that are ignoring your frames and foundation ... are they not building comb at all ? Have you got the frames dummied down to just the space they are using ?

Sorry more questions than answers but you need to tell us a bit more ...

 

[Simplywords]

More explanation

Hi Pargyle
Thanks for your words. To answer your questions, my husband believes he heard out tutor saying that bees new to a hive should be fed continuously and on through the winter albeit that the winter extra will be fondant rather than the thin syrup we are feeding them...and have done since they arrived here. From what has been said, it would appear that we have done so without need or cause really. Maybe that's why the bees were so concentrated on all but the latest and last of the frames for their hive..... drunk on syrup and going about their daily tasks like there was no tomorrow?

Each set of bees live in their own half of the Beehaus, with a divider in the middle and their own entrance. In order that we know which 'hive' we are talking about, they are called 'Hive One' and 'Hive Two' - my husband's idea, I would have called them by much more interesting names, but....

The bees in Hive One, were the larger group that were meant to have a Queen in with them, who had been laying strongly. These bees were all over the frames, extension foundation and all. Even after shaking, blowing and dusting, my husband said he couldn't see enough foundation to work out what was going on, unfortunately. He said that that there might have been eggs and/or larvae, but that there were some capped cells, which he thought were stores.

I would imagine that if we had been able to have someone more experienced with us, we might have had some answers, but it was our first time and we were alone.....and I was sitting down, watching all this because I find standing for long extremely painful and because since having a stoke, I find my sense of balance seriously compromised. I didn't want to fall down and promote panic in the bees, let alone in my husband. I can confirm that in Hive One,there were so many bees, all over the frames, that it was hard work to get them off before they had flown up in horror and landed again.

Hive Two had less bees to start with. They were also on the thin syrup feed and equally very busy...both hives having flights out and back during our attempts to look in. These bees had ignored the foundations on the extensions, some of which seem to have melted slightly and to have been breaking up a little....I thought that maybe it was the strong heat in the weather doing the melting....but as the bees were all over the main foundation and again it was hard to see what they were doing.

My husband said that he had seen the queen in Hive Two (the Nuc) whilst putting them into their hive, so we are assuming that she has been laying and that the bees were in a frenzy of getting their stores in for winter - our weather up in the NE isn't like that down south....we are getting more cloud and bouts of heavy rain than actual sunshine now, although we did have several hot and sunny days two weeks ago - but again it was hard to say what were eggs or larvae and what were honey cells.

Re the dead bees, I got my husband to bring me in a few of the dead bees, and to lend me his very strong magnifying glass and his head magnifier (he uses these when making his kit cars...he wins prizes for the quality of these, hence the kit) and had a look to see if there was anything that would show up. He thoughtfully put the bees in a shallow enamel 'dish' he uses whilst building his cars (scale models, I should say in case you think of him trying to build a kit car' in his room....he's building that one in the garage!). Two of the specimens were so old that they were mere husks and there was nothing there to see. I thought one of the others looked like a drone though, and there was another who was about dead but still able to flex its abdomen and by comparison, was a forager bee who had either emptied her sacs or was being sent out when she had no energy to go out and so simply had dropped.

I hope that helps your interest in helping. As I said, the 'bee inspector' from FERA is coming to do an initial inspection for us, on Wednesday of this week, when we might learn a lot more about what we are or aren't doing right by our bees, which I am happy to share, should anyone express interest.....I am going to be making notes as my contribution to the meeting, which I shall then put nicely onto the computer, to add to the amount of notes as we inspect for ourselves.

 

[BeeJayBee]

my husband believes he heard out tutor saying that bees new to a hive should be fed continuously and on through the winter albeit that the winter extra will be fondant rather than the thin syrup we are feeding them...and have done since they arrived here.

I think you could do with getting at least one reference book. Haynes Bee Manual is good for beginners, and is well illustrated. It will help you identify what you're seeing. There is a picture of the castes of bee here http://tinyurl.com/lj7ncly

Your bees should not need feeding now, there is still natural forage, and the queen needs space to lay.

If you use a bee brush, brush gently upwards which will remove bees from cells rather than hurting them. If you want to clear a small space on a frame put the back of your hand just above the bees, they will move out of the way.

Have you joined your local BKA? Most clubs have useful talks during the autumn and winter.

 

[pargyle]

I think you could do with getting at least one reference book. Haynes Bee Manual is good for beginners, and is well illustrated. It will help you identify what you're seeing. There is a picture of the castes of bee here http://tinyurl.com/lj7ncly

Your bees should not need feeding now, there is still natural forage, and the queen needs space to lay.

If you use a bee brush, brush gently upwards which will remove bees from cells rather than hurting them. If you want to clear a small space on a frame put the back of your hand just above the bees, they will move out of the way.

Have you joined your local BKA? Most clubs have useful talks during the autumn and winter.

This is good advice from Beejoyful. One of the fundamental things you need to be able to do id identify what you are seeing on your frames of brood. Eggs, Larva, capped brood, Nectar, capped honey and pollen - along with the pattern of empty cells and one which frames they are will tell you a lot about what the bees are doing and where they are doing it.

Bees, inevitably, will cover the frames when you take them out - if you can't see the cells then the easiest thing to do is take out a couple of frames and then 'shake' the bees off one of the frames so that they fall back down into the two frame space you have made in your hive. You just drop the frame downwards and then stop suddenly - a lot of the bees will fall off, it won't hurt them and you can then see more of what is going on. You really need someone to show you the more practical aspects of hive manipulation - it's pretty pointless opening the hive if you can't see anything when you do it.

Hopefully the BI will give you a bit of help but Beejoyful is right - get yourself along to a BKA meeting and see some other beekeepers in action ... and enlist some help.

The Beehaus is very much like my long hive and it's an easy hive to use but I'm still not sold on your idea of trying to keep two full colonies in the same hive. You would probably get more from combining the two into one (lose [squish] one of your queens or put her with a few bees and a frame or two back into a nucleus). Forget the 'dividing the beehaus into two' mantra - you have more chance of a healthy, well provided for colony with more bees in it rearing more brood, storing more honey surviving over the winter. The spare queen and her few workers can take a chance in the Nuc if you choose to keep her - personally, I would lose her and keep all the bees together in the hive. It's an easy job to combine them in a beehaus ...

And yes ... if you haven't yet read a bee book, get the Haynes Manual and digest it cover to cover - several times.

 

[pargyle]

Hi Pargyle

..my husband believes he heard out tutor saying that bees new to a hive should be fed continuously and on through the winter albeit that the winter extra will be fondant rather than the thin syrup we are feeding them...and have done since they arrived here.

You would, normally, feed a new colony a couple of litres of 1:1 sugar syrup to tide them over the period when they won't have stores of their own. It also gives them a start to draw out the comb. After the couple of litres they should already be out foraging - and probably have been in your case. There should have been no need to feed during the last month or so as there has been plenty of natural forage for them. You only need to feed over winter if they don't have enough of their own stores in the frames. Most of the time you would feed fondant in the spring after 'hefting' the hive to determine the weight and so have an idea of what they have left - not easy for a new beekeeper.

From what has been said, it would appear that we have done so without need or cause really. Maybe that's why the bees were so concentrated on all but the latest and last of the frames for their hive..... drunk on syrup and going about their daily tasks like there was no tomorrow?

Probably been storing all that sugar syrup away and your queen hasn't had enough room to lay ... this is not what you want - more eggs, more bees, more foraging, more workers to rear more brood and so on ... feeding unnecessarily is not good for the bees, generally.

Each set of bees live in their own half of the Beehaus, with a divider in the middle and their own entrance.
The bees in Hive One, were the larger group that were meant to have a Queen in with them, who had been laying strongly. These bees were all over the frames, extension foundation and all. Even after shaking, blowing and dusting, my husband said he couldn't see enough foundation to work out what was going on, unfortunately. He said that that there might have been eggs and/or larvae, but that there were some capped cells, which he thought were stores.

You need to know .... for CERTAIN

I would imagine that if we had been able to have someone more experienced with us, we might have had some answers, but it was our first time and we were alone.....and I was sitting down, watching all this because I find standing for long extremely painful and because since having a stoke, I find my sense of balance seriously compromised. I didn't want to fall down and promote panic in the bees, let alone in my husband.

You have my sympathy but you need to work out a system whereby, between the two of you, you can do things with your bees - a bar stool alongside the beehaus for you to sit on perhaps ? The beehaus frames are at waist height so a stool may be a bit higher and a bit closer than sitting in a chair some distance away.

I can confirm that in Hive One,there were so many bees, all over the frames, that it was hard work to get them off before they had flown up in horror and landed again. Hve Two had less bees to start with. They were also on the thin syrup feed and equally very busy...both hives having flights out and back during our attempts to look in.

As I said elsewherer - might be better combining the two hives into one ... What seems like a lot of bees to a new beekeeper is often not as many as you would think ...

These bees had ignored the foundations on the extensions, some of which seem to have melted slightly and to have been breaking up a little....I thought that maybe it was the strong heat in the weather doing the melting....but as the bees were all over the main foundation and again it was hard to see what they were doing.

Perhaps there are not enough bees to build out the foundation or perhaps not enough wax being produced by the bees to build out the comb - they may have dismantled the foundation on your extensions to use it to build out the comb above. Its very unlikely that it has melted.

My husband said that he had seen the queen in Hive Two (the Nuc) whilst putting them into their hive, so we are assuming that she has been laying and that the bees were in a frenzy of getting their stores in for winter - our weather up in the NE isn't like that down south....we are getting more cloud and bouts of heavy rain than actual sunshine now, although we did have several hot and sunny days two weeks ago - but again it was hard to say what were eggs or larvae and what were honey cells.

IF you can learn to see eggs & larva it tells you the queen is there - searching for her then becomes irrelevant. There are lots of beeks on this forum further north than you and reporting record crops of honey ... you won't get honey if you are feeding them sugar syrup -- if there are showers your bees will still forage when it is dry in between - cloudy conditions won't worry them in the least.

Re the dead bees, I got my husband to bring me in a few of the dead bees, and to lend me his very strong magnifying glass and his head magnifier (he uses these when making his kit cars...he wins prizes for the quality of these, hence the kit) and had a look to see if there was anything that would show up. He thoughtfully put the bees in a shallow enamel 'dish' he uses whilst building his cars (scale models, I should say in case you think of him trying to build a kit car' in his room....he's building that one in the garage!). Two of the specimens were so old that they were mere husks and there was nothing there to see. I thought one of the others looked like a drone though, and there was another who was about dead but still able to flex its abdomen and by comparison, was a forager bee who had either emptied her sacs or was being sent out when she had no energy to go out and so simply had dropped.

Stop worrying about a few dead bees - worry about what you are doing to the live ones ! And what you need to do to get them into a state where the will be able to survive over the winter

I hope that helps your interest in helping. As I said, the 'bee inspector' from FERA is coming to do an initial inspection for us, on Wednesday of this week, when we might learn a lot more about what we are or aren't doing right by our bees, which I am happy to share, should anyone express interest...

Good .... take notice of what he says and ask him what he thinks you should be doing .... however, Bee Inspectors are really there to check the health of your hive, they are not really a substitute for a mentor or some training and personal research. They are often under time constraints so try to keep your questions specific and try not to woffle about the weather, colour of the hive, what has happened before (sorry, not being unkind - but you know what I mean - write down your questions beforehand and stick to the script !).

Good luck.

 

[Easy Beesy]

Hi. Can I suggest you call the bees in your beehaus 'colony 1' and 'colony 2'?

A hive is the box they live in. Each 'family' within is a colony.

Bee inspector will show you the difference between capped stores, capped larvae, and eggs and pollen if you ask him. Get him to show you the correct way to 'read' a frame and how to shake off bees - he is there to help.

Best of luck - let us know how you go on.