Bee imports post IWD

[Into the lions den]

I have, and there were only seven in the initial group, not aware of any problems with at least three of them, know there stuff with regards any aspects of bees and bee farming and extremely hard working.

Of course Hivemaker....rwo of them you know especially well, and if they were not already very well grounded in these things even before they started as apprentices I would be surprised. But.... rhose I have actually had a chance to talk to have been prepared, and have ideas consistent with, what outside the UK would be considered 'sidelining'. A lifestyle rather than a solid business aim.

I appreciate that it is probably ME that is the outlier here, but this is not a touchy feely job. I had one application from an ex apprentice and they only wanted office hours, money higher than a manager here, higher than I pay myself, and did not want to be in a sharp end bee team but rather wanted to do a bit of queen rearing, a bit of nucleus production, a bit of beekeeping, a bit of marketing, a bit of office based work. A dream job if you can get it I suppose.

My impression was they are ideally equipped to look after 150 hives or so, doing a bit of everything and not too much stress. A small business really. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that. Not what I need, but as I say, its me that's not normal here.

And I am talking only about the two I have had direct contact with. I cannot speak with the authority Hivemaker can on the education they were given, only on what the aspirations of the ones I had dealing with were.

Added later as a post script....

I suppose that my view on this...and my not wanting to take on apprentices (at least on the BFA scheme)...can be distilled down to a simple point. I want to train and hire people to work FOR a beefarmer.........rather than be a beefarmer in their own right.

 

[foghornleghorn]

Of course Hivemaker....rwo of them you know especially well, and if they were not already very well grounded in these things even before they started as apprentices I would be surprised. But.... rhose I have actually had a chance to talk to have been prepared, and have ideas consistent with, what outside the UK would be considered 'sidelining'. A lifestyle rather than a solid business aim.

I appreciate that it is probably ME that is the outlier here, but this is not a touchy feely job. I had one application from an ex apprentice and they only wanted office hours, money higher than a manager here, higher than I pay myself, and did not want to be in a sharp end bee team but rather wanted to do a bit of queen rearing, a bit of nucleus production, a bit of beekeeping, a bit of marketing, a bit of office based work. A dream job if you can get it I suppose.

My impression was they are ideally equipped to look after 150 hives or so, doing a bit of everything and not too much stress. A small business really. Nothing intrinsically wrong with that. Not what I need, but as I say, its me that's not normal here.

And I am talking only about the two I have had direct contact with. I cannot speak with the authority Hivemaker can on the education they were given, only on what the aspirations of the ones I had dealing with were.

Added later as a post script....

I suppose that my view on this...and my not wanting to take on apprentices (at least on the BFA scheme)...can be distilled down to a simple point. I want to train and hire people to work FOR a beefarmer.........rather than be a beefarmer in their own right.

That's more the millenial generation thinking probably. If you do have any openings that fit the description be sure to post! It sounds a lot better than having sore hands and a sore back and no stressof running a business

 

[SDM]

.

My impression was they are ideally equipped to look after 150 hives or so, doing a bit of everything and not too much stress. A small business really.

This was one of my criticisms of the scheme when it started. How were these 21 yr olds who'd only ever earned apprentice wages supposed to finish their course and set up this 150 hive business? Not that this mattered for most of the first intakes as they were simply going back to their family business with subsidised wages for a few years.

 

[For want of a better word]

This was one of my criticisms of the scheme when it started. How were these 21 yr olds who'd only ever earned apprentice wages supposed to finish their course and set up this 150 hive business? Not that this mattered for most of the first intakes as they were simply going back to their family business with subsidised wages for a few years.

Few "apprentices" get to set up on their own until they have gone through the years of being "journeymen" and worked for a few employers on the tools... even then if being their own boss was their aim.
Setting up any business including beefarming is a long and hard road and you really only cash in when you sell up!

Nos da

 

[SDM]

Well then, is there any need for 3 years of apprenticeship, for them to get a job working for someone else.? Qualified to the level they are is great if theyre taking over established businesses, but unnecessary and as itld says possibly counter productive as employees.
How many uk enterprises have positions for highly qualified employee's? I imagine theyve already trained enough potential senior beekeepers for the entire uk bee farming industry.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Well then, is there any need for 3 years of apprenticeship, for them to get a job working for someone else.?

Yes of course, apprenticeships are a good way of learning any trade, many go onto work for others before setting up their own business, if running their own business is what they want to do... take for instance an apprentice mechanic or panel beater, they need to learn the trade properly to do the job, not many will buy a million pound garage of their own the day the apprenticeship ends, but will work for others using the skills they learned during their apprenticeship, some will set up their own business a few years down the line.

We need a lot more apprenticeships in the various trades to be available to young people in this country, many don't wish to be academics and stay on at school until they are nearly retiring age.

 

[BKF Admin]

Do we not have a couple of beefarmers in the uk that are very succesfull who did for want of a better word an "apprenticeship" with a beefarmer a few years back..

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do we not have a couple of beefarmers in the uk that are very succesfull who did for want of a better word an "apprenticeship" with a beefarmer a few years back..

Yes, I know of a few that have, but worked for others in various places before setting up their own business.

 

[SDM]

Do we not have a couple of beefarmers in the uk that are very succesfull who did for want of a better word an "apprenticeship" with a beefarmer a few years back..

.
So what your saying is these guys shoukd do an apprenticeship, then work as apprentices for someone else for years before( maybe) setting up on their own.
Perhaps im missing something here, but.when working as a full time beekeeper is there really a need for so many years of understudy to prepare them?
And again im wondering how many uk operations have suitable vacancies/wages for these people who've completed 3yrs of work and study.

 

[Finman]

.
If you have 500 -150 hives, how much you need land property, store houses and machines to run business. Do you get loan and when you are going to pay them back?

What do you get with £ 100 000 ?

 

[For want of a better word]

.
If you have 500 -150 hives, how much you need land property, store houses and machines to run business. Do you get loan and when you are going to pay them back?

What do you get with £ 100 000 ?

An Honours degree in Biology/ Geography / History / Russian perhaps... a Masters or a PhD....
then spend the rest of your working life paying back the fees and working for an insurance company / civil service.. stuck in a stuffy office with a carpet under your feet, with a secretary sitting on the lino-ed half of the office with 2 "0" levels and in fact in a better financial position with less stress than you? ?

And 2 hives at the bottom of your ( small) garden perhaps???

Mytten da

 

[Finman]

.
Ok. No sensible answer from main planner.
.

 

[mbc]

Yes of course, apprenticeships are a good way of learning any trade, many go onto work for others before setting up their own business, if running their own business is what they want to do... take for instance an apprentice mechanic or panel beater, they need to learn the trade properly to do the job, not many will buy a million pound garage of their own the day the apprenticeship ends, but will work for others using the skills they learned during their apprenticeship, some will set up their own business a few years down the line.

We need a lot more apprenticeships in the various trades to be available to young people in this country, many don't wish to be academics and stay on at school until they are nearly retiring age.

Spot on hm

 

[SDM]

Im not disputing the value of apprenticeships generally, but i get the impression the majority of beekeeping operations are 1 man or family businesses. Can someone put a figure on the number of uk businesses that are of a size to pay a decent wage( the sort of wage someone could make a life from) to a non family member?

 

[mbc]

.
So what your saying is these guys shoukd do an apprenticeship, then work as apprentices for someone else for years before( maybe) setting up on their own.
Perhaps im missing something here, but.when working as a full time beekeeper is there really a need for so many years of understudy to prepare them?
And again im wondering how many uk operations have suitable vacancies/wages for these people who've completed 3yrs of work and study.

Succession planning, thats what you're missing, most bee farmers are of a venerable age and we need more youngsters coming into the industry.
Its a high risk profession with lots of stings and hard work therefore its a labour of love and a safe route to get qualified(aka the apprenticeship scheme) for those who feel the love is desirable.
Next we need bridging loans or honey share schemes to make entry into the business easier and succession easier for those retiring.

 

[Poly Hive]

Probably no more than 5 is my guess.

Apprenticeships are great and this country shot its self in the foot over it. Blairs UNI for all was ridiculous from the get go and far too many kids are seduced by the thought of higher ed to no point.

Worse its a double whammy as the Unis have dumbed down and the bills have shot up. Daft.

As for beekeeping in my view the best way to go would be to formalise a mentorship scheme. I had the enormous benefit of considerable mentoring by a very successful BF. As the colonies numbers rise, funded by sales please note, then the knowledge base widens. Organic growth is the best way to go, safer and if it goes horribly wrong there are owned assets to sell off.

PH

 

[mbc]

Probably no more than 5 is my guess.

PH

Way off, there are three within thirty miles of me in not so great bee country, I imagine the density in good areas or where theres pollination quite close to be much higher.
Times ten at least uk wide I would have thought.

 

[Poly Hive]

Interesting. There are really three outfits in Wales big enough to support full time employees?

When I was in the BFs I think my figure would be pretty much on the money. One in Scotland, one in Cornwall, and I put in a further three for good luck. However times change.

PH

 

[SDM]

Way off, there are three within thirty miles of me in not so great bee country, I imagine the density in good areas or where theres pollination quite close to be much higher.
Times ten at least uk wide I would have thought.

Really? There are 3 local to you who can afford to pay an average wage to an extra beekeeper?
But even if you are right in 5 or 6 intakes there will be no more employment for aprentices.

 

[mbc]

Interesting. There are really three outfits in Wales big enough to support full time employees?

When I was in the BFs I think my figure would be pretty much on the money. One in Scotland, one in Cornwall, and I put in a further three for good luck. However times change.

PH

Not sure about the rest of Wales but I know of three who have full time employees outside of the family based in West Wales, though two of them don't have their bees exclusively in Wales.