Bee friendly weedkiller

[NorthernAngel101]

I've been asked by the parish council for brands of bee friendly weedkiller that their gardener can use for general use. Ive looked on the internet but other than advice to avoid ones containing glycophosphates, I am struggling to find suitable brands. The area is too large to use vinegar, boiling water etc. Can anyone recommend suitable ones?

 

[hemo]

The only bee friendly weed killer I use is me, on my hands and knees oiking them out with a hand tool and a knee protector.

 

[NorthernAngel101]

The only bee friendly weed killer I use is me, on my hands and knees oiking them out with a hand tool and a knee protector.

Yes this has been the option so far but the councillors are getting a bit fed up of being the only ones willing to hand weed. Even the contracted gardener won't do it.

 

[Brenda]

What about controlled scorching, as the Bees will keep away from this and so will everyone else. Failing that Goats will eat anything although must be supervised too. Only problem is built up areas are no go, only method would be dusk or dawn spraying as there is not a Bee friendly Weedkiller existing, all have big problems and not only for Bees. Councils may not pay for this option as extra out of hours wages. Hands and Knees for me!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I don't think there's any real scientific proof that glyphosate is exceptionally harmful to the bees. Most sounds like supposition to me.

 

[Patrick1]

Yes this has been the option so far but the councillors are getting a bit fed up of being the only ones willing to hand weed. Even the contracted gardener won't do it.

Well thats good news, perhaps they can be encouraged to rewild no idea what that means exactly, it seems to be associated with doing nothing

 

[bobba]

I don't think there's any real scientific proof that glyphosate is exceptionally harmful to the bees. Most sounds like supposition to me.

There most certainly is....

https://e360.yale.edu/features/bee-alert-is-a-controversial-herbicide-harming-honeybees
Its much like the neo-nic situation.

The test methods used are crude, consisting of a topical and oral test on caged bees in a lab. Unfortunately these tests are very bad at picking up non-lethal effects.

As people are looking more closely they are finding that these AIs and the various compounds they degrade into over time do have non-lethal detrimental effects on bees.

Just give it a bit more time.......

 

[Patrick1]

The big problem is if we keep banning things like Neo-nics and glyphosate and cutting the grass, some beekeepers will run out of excuses for their poor beekeeping

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

There most certainly is....

https://e360.yale.edu/features/bee-alert-is-a-controversial-herbicide-harming-honeybees
Its much like the neo-nic situation.

The test methods used are crude, consisting of a topical and oral test on caged bees in a lab. Unfortunately these tests are very bad at picking up non-lethal effects.

As people are looking more closely they are finding that these AIs and the various compounds they degrade into over time do have non-lethal detrimental effects on bees.

Just give it a bit more time.......

That's not proof, just supposition based on data affecting humans, as you say their methods are pretty crude so really speaking cannot be depended on one way or another.
Let's be honest about it - most of the hysteria is based on a general prejudice aimed at Monsanto more than anything else. If someone put a 'Monsanto' logo on the side of an oxygen tanker we'd soon have the soap dodgers and sandal wearers demanding the gas should be banned

Maybe try Azural instead?

 

[Ian123]

Go get 1 off the shelf from the garden centre, use it according to manufacturers instructions, and maybe for good measure use it at dusk, You won’t go far wrong! Or is that far to logical

 

[bobba]

That's not proof, just supposition based on data affecting humans, as you say their methods are pretty crude so really speaking cannot be depended on one way or another.
Let's be honest about it - most of the hysteria is based on a general prejudice aimed at Monsanto more than anything else. If someone put a 'Monsanto' logo on the side of an oxygen tanker we'd soon have the soap dodgers and sandal wearers demanding the gas should be banned

I do agree that available to link studies on the internet are mostly flimsy at best.

JBM, you know I will bow down to your superior knowledge of bees, and I would not normally dare disagree with you. But you should realize by now I know more about pesticide testing on non target organisms then can readily be found on the internet.

I could find more:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33920750/
But trust me there is a lot of research in the pipe line. Its like asbestos or lead exposure for humans, in a short test detrimental effects are hard to detect. So by their very nature these study's take a long time to complete.

Until the neo-nic ban, topical and oral lab tests were considered sufficient by the regulators - and still are in some cases. Essentially an acute exposure.

But research is now being done by specialist groups, such as the bee tracker study I mentioned, where they are looking for more subtle effects in new ways. Generally these studies, such as the one linked above, focus on chronic exposure.

I am not an eco nutter who says glyphosate is going to kill all the bees - it wont.

What I am saying is that it has subtle detrimental effects on bees.

How bad the effects are on a hive over all, I dont know. But when you start to consider the combined sub-lethal effects of so many AIs in use, you have to wonder if when combined, could they have a noticeable effect on hives in some locations?




Maybe try Azural instead?
[/QUOTE]

Go get 1 off the shelf from the garden centre, use it according to manufacturers instructions, and maybe for good measure use it at dusk, You won’t go far wrong! Or is that far to logical

Yes, you can trust every word they say - You won’t go far wrong!



But seriously the watered down stuff in garden centers is a different kettle of fish to a farmer dosing a giant field with full strength.

So agree, if a small quantity is used sensibly, then notifiable harm is unlikely.


I have said my bit, so you guys are welcome to the last word if you care to reply. If you still dont blieve me, then we will have to agree to disagree on this one for now. More info will be available in a few years time so its just a waiting game until you do blieve me

 

[Erichalfbee]

But you should realize by now I know more about pesticide testing on non target organisms then can readily be found on the internet.
is unlikely.

Can I ask how?

 

[Sutty]

Pelargonic acid is supposed to have a very low toxicity to people or bees. It isn't a systemic weedkiller though, and just kills the areas of a plant it is applied to. It's present in many plants - that doesn't mean harmless though! Lots of plants are very toxic.

 

[Apiarisnt]

Erick Motta at Texas Uni has been doing some interesting work on the impact of glyphosate on the bee gut, see attached. However I note that even the CEH (repsonsible for an oft quoted but somewhat misleading paper on neonics in 2017) are happy to recommend glyphosate in their recommendations for managing habitats for pollinators (see page 61 of the attached).

I continue to use glyphoosate, diluted from the 360 g/l concentrate, on areas not far from my hives.

 

[Wilco]

Can I ask how?

Seconded, I'm curious!

 

[user 20297]

But seriously the watered down stuff in garden centers is a different kettle of fish to a farmer dosing a giant field with full strength.

I think you would find that commercial applicators of herbicides use them at much lower and more consistent rates of active product per square metre than most amateur gardeners.

 

[bobba]

I think you would find that commercial applicators of herbicides use them at much lower and more consistent rates of active product per square meter than most amateur gardeners.

The AI/ha recommendation for application from the manufacture remains unchanged for farmers or gardeners, but the stuff for the public is more watered down so more must be applied to achieve the same AI/ha.

So if a bee gets a direct blast, then the farmers application is worse, however if you are talking residues it makes little difference. Unless mr amateur gardener has over applied as they have a tendency to do - hence why the formulations available to them are less potent.

But agree farmers definitely apply more consistently, so are prone to less hot spots.

I have a neighbor a few door down. She started developing green fingers and getting into gardening. She asked me to look at her flowers in her garden in September a cupple years back. She was concerned as her flowers were all dyeing and wanted my advice.

She thought they were under attack from some kind of insect so had been spraying them daily with pesticide. I explained to her, "its September your flowers have had a good run, the weather is turning, and non perennial flowers tend to die this time of year"

So for residues you are probably right that amateur application can have worse hot spots.

 

[user 20297]

So if a bee gets a direct blast, then the farmers application is worse, however if you are talking residues it makes little difference. Unless mr amateur gardener has over applied as they have a tendency to do - hence why the formulations available to them are less potent.

That depends on the method of application and I'm not necessarily referring to farmers when mentioning "commercial". Where herbicides are being diluted with water before application, the regulatory framework and training coupled with the need to make economical use of the chemicals using precision equipment, properly calibrated, will almost always mean that a concentrate will be diluted by the correct proportions. This is something that is less likely to happen with amateurs, even if the product as supplied is less concentrated.

Where the application technology uses undiluted concentrate, I agree that the droplets of herbicide might be very small and evenly sized but can be in very high concentartions.

 

[NorthernAngel101]

Thank you so much everyone for your replies. Much appreciated.

 

[Moira]

Hi, we put down de-icing salt or rock salt in our apiary. Sprinkle it about just before sunset and with rain forecast and it will kill all plants. Much like glyphosate but no chemicals. Bees seem fine with it - make sure it does not linger on the surface.