BBC bees tonight-Someone save me from these loonies, please!!!!!

[Stiffy]

Learnt a lot from this programme..........don't buy a pink beesuit with a fencing veil. How awful did it look and I wonder how many stings he took on the nose from that rubbish veil ?
The rest of the programme was just fanciful nonsense from people with too much time on their hands, living their dreams in La la land. Oh and I should say IMHO
S

 

[domino]

Where did they get the one third reduction in bees over the last century number from?

 

[madasafish]

Where did they get the one third reduction in bees over the last century number from?

From the same people who don't do sums and think that a Government borrowing money is Austerity..

 

[sunhivebee]

I was alerted to this programme by a neighbour who told me it had been mentioned on the radio several times last week.
Programme started well with Ian Holmer talking about his good gentle bees.
It then deteriorated into a for the plug crazies of the Natural Beekeeping Trust espousing chemical free beekeeping and we should not eat honey but only remove a little for medicinal use.Ian did his best to point out that bees store a surplus of honey and more importantly hives that were never inspected presented a danger of disease transmission to beekeepers who care for the health of their colonies.

Brian, Ian Homer (note spelling) did a little more even than pointing out that bees store a surplus. The NBKT's social media people had great fun with what he really said. #alternativefacts The same with your "plug for the crazies of the Natural Beekeeping Trust espousing chemical free beekeeping " what a line! The programme's producer adored it! Another programme about sensible beekeeping is in the offing. Better throw out your tv if it upsets you too much
.

 

[pargyle]

That is one of the things I find most irritating about 'natural beekeepers', this holier-than-thou attitude and the implication that other beekeepers do not care about their bees and are only keeping them for what they can get out of them financially.

There are many viruses, diseases and pests that effect our bees that do not belong to our ecosystem. If we did not control these we would not have any bees. Just calling them 'natural' does not make them immune to foul brood.

If beekeepers are not checking their bees properly and dealing with problems they see they are not being responsible. There is nothing more distressing to any beekeeper than seeing a colony riddled with disease and viruses, especially when these can be treated.

Foul brood is a notifiable disease for very good reason. This is not going to discriminate between bees being kept in a natural or traditional manner We must be able to check for these and identify them when present. We are then legally obliged to report it to the ministry bee inspector. Any person not able or prepared to do this should not be keeping bees. It is irresponsible and shows a complete disregard for the health of neighboring bee colonies. As a result this could have a serious impact on people's businesses.

There may be people who think we should not be keeping bees for money, but I assure my family and customer's would not agree.

This is not the way most low interference beekeepers behave - the ones I know are not pious zealots who disparage every other sort of beekeeping, far from it - As Heidi says - keeping bees without treatments is not just a case of putting them in a box and letting them get on with it - it takes a lot more effort than that.

If you are suggesting that their bees are disease ridden varroa infested weaklings you would be very mistaken. Your view is distorted and uninformed. You should go along and visit either Heidi or one of her fellow beekeepers - I feel sure they will make you welcome - you may be surprised at what you see.

You cannot medicate for AFB and EFB in the UK - indeed, there are very few bee diseases that you CAN medicate against - or indeed cure with 'medicines' if your bees get them. There is no evidence that people who don't treat their bees don't look after them or understand the bee diseases - indeed, I've seen as much Nosema and Chalk brood etc. in colonies of people who routinely 'treat' for varroa as in those who don't treat.

I think you need to open your eyes and perhaps your mind ....

 

[Hivemaker.]

You cannot medicate for AFB and EFB in the UK

A bee inspector, or possibly a member of the DASH scheme can use oxytetracycline antibiotic for EFB in the UK.

 

[B+.]

A bee inspector, or possibly a member of the DASH scheme can use oxytetracycline antibiotic for EFB in the UK.

When I did the DASH course, we were specifically told not to administer antibiotics. Only bee inspectors are allowed to do this.

We were given a number of field test kits for diagnosis of afb/efb and envelopes to send infected samples in eppendorf tubes but this was just a backup. The field test kits are at least. if not more accurate, than the lab test so this is effectively a diagnosis. DASH allows you to destroy afb affected colonies (which you would do anyway) and APHA would take the sample as confirmation as though a bee inspector had done it.

If anyone else has a different view, please feel free to correct me.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A bee inspector, or possibly a member of the DASH scheme can use oxytetracycline antibiotic for EFB in the UK.

As long as they don't get it from MannLake, I presume

 

[Little John]

This is not the way most low interference beekeepers behave - the ones I know are not pious zealots who disparage every other sort of beekeeping, far from it

Just take a trip over to a certain 'Barefoot' site and mention inspections, treatment - or even just the use of frames - and you'll then experience a tirade of the above. Can't give you the link, as that site's guru was chucked-off from here for precisely that conduct, and links to that site are now verbotten.
LJ

 

[Erichalfbee]

Can't give you the link, as that site's guru was chucked-off from here for precisely that conduct, and links to that site are now verbotten.
LJ

Links are easy
Just paste the link substituting . with * or some such
For example
http://www.-------------
http://www*bbka*org*uk

 

[Hivemaker.]

Can't give you the link, as that site's guru was chucked-off from here for precisely that conduct, and links to that site are now verbotten.

If you are referring to Phil Chandler, he has never been thrown off or banned from this forum, and looking back at his posts and adverts... his conduct was very good on here.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/member.php?u=444

 

[alldigging]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08d7zy2/inside-out-south-06022017

The relevant bit is from 10:10 to 19:08

 

[pargyle]

Just take a trip over to a certain 'Barefoot' site and mention inspections, treatment - or even just the use of frames - and you'll then experience a tirade of the above. Can't give you the link, as that site's guru was chucked-off from here for precisely that conduct, and links to that site are now verbotten.
LJ

I've been there - many times - there are a few zealots over there but even Phil Chandler does not describe himself as a 'Natural' beekeeper these days and whilst he favours top bar hives and natural comb he's certainly not a leave alone beekeeper. He's mellowed a lot over recent years and there's one or two very traditional beekeepers who have move a little towards beecentric beekeeping as well. Like I said originally in this thread - I tread a course somewhere between the two extremes and it works - there's things you can learn from both camps.

 

[pargyle]

If you are referring to Phil Chandler, he has never been thrown off or banned from this forum, and looking back at his posts and adverts... his conduct was very good on here.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/member.php?u=444

Thanks Pete - beat me to it. I don't agree with everything that Phil has said over the years but I've always found him very helpful and understanding - and actually tolerant of those of us who may not follow his doctrine completely but do make an effort to tread a low interference route in their beekeeping. I can't remember any recent derogatory outbursts... on any forums.

 

[Little John]

If you are referring to Phil Chandler, he has never been thrown off or banned from this forum, and looking back at his posts and adverts... his conduct was very good on here.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/member.php?u=444

I stand corrected - and I'm now trying to figure out where on earth that idea came from - as it's not something I would have invented. Thanks for the correction.

Just curious - why is the bio link blanked-out if added to a post ?
LJ

 

[user 6228]

As such things go i found it relatively innocuous. There are much more extreme and ill founded views out there than this... on both sides. None of these two stated anything that contravened the laws of Physics, which is an improvement on a lot of Beekeeping opinions

 

[Little John]

To give you an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about, here is a (fairly mild) example:

I had just gone to the trouble of starting a thread on the Barefoot site - posting it in the Conventional and Miscellaneous Hives section - complete with photographs - to which I received the response:

PC: So, now you have reverted the top bar hive to a conventional frame hive, maybe we should all just pack up and forget about 'natural beekeeping' altogether?

Another member: I didn't realise that framed hives excluded a keeper from being a natural beekeeper. Isn't it a way of keeping the bees and not the box? Nice work on the conversion but I don't think I would have done it.

PC: Frames per se don't prevent 'natural beekeeping', but IMO they have serious limitations, especially as they require a top opening hive (except for the rear-opening eastern European box hives). This inevitably causes loss of brood nest heat during inspections. They also add another unnecessary expense and complication to what can be a simple hive.

Me: I suppose I should have expected that kind of absolutist response from Phil by my use of the word 'frame'.

PC: I am not an 'absolutist' about anything, except the use of toxic additives, and I rather resent the accusation.
My point was that frames are an unnecessary intrusion into the bees' space, and it looks like you are simply compensating for the poor mass:attached area ratio in a Tanzanian by adding extra structural support. Nothing new there, but I do find your pointless attack on the well-proven and very flexible TBH design rather tiresome.

Me: What you said was:

So, now you have reverted the top bar hive to a conventional frame hive, maybe we should all just pack up and forget about 'natural beekeeping' altogether?

To be suggesting that 'everyone' should respond in a particular way towards one person's hive conversion is absolutist - is it not ?

Why does beekeeping always have to be so 'black and white' ? Bees are flexible, adaptable creatures - how is it that the keepers of bees cannot follow their example ?



Sure, as a 'put-down' that's pretty tame - but it's one instance I can easily remember, as I recently added to that thread to confirm that the results of the conversion have been good.
I cautiously expect my 8-Frame Nationals (National-Warre's) to be even better ... but I won't be posting about those on the Barefoot site - to receive a similar kind of 'put-down' - no matter how mild !
LJ

 

[Hivemaker.]

Just curious - why is the bio link blanked-out if added to a post ?

Because that is how the owner of the forum likes it, it all started off from Mr -------,...lots of links to other forums and websites of various bee supply companies are blanked out on here, including mine...though not as many now as there were a few years ago.

LOL.... there, could not even write the word...e a s y b e e

 

[Little John]

Because that is how the owner of the forum likes it, it all started off from Mr -------,...lots of links to other forums and websites of various bee supply companies are blanked out on here

Many thanks - that may well have been how I was misled - maybe asking somebody (perhaps off-forum) why that particular link had been blanked-out ? - and they said (incorrectly) that PC had been banned for being a naughty boy and, seeing as he didn't/doesn't post on here anymore I just accepted that explanation on face value. Maybe. Was a long time ago. Seems I owe the bloke an apology.
LJ

 

[madasafish]

Thanks Pete - beat me to it. I don't agree with everything that Phil has said over the years but I've always found him very helpful and understanding - and actually tolerant of those of us who may not follow his doctrine completely but do make an effort to tread a low interference route in their beekeeping. I can't remember any recent derogatory outbursts... on any forums.

Hmm

I can remember two - and I was the target..

But as I grow older I forgive and forget.